Building a Computer for SC2.. need suggestions

Hi guys. I am planning on building a computer to play SC2 such that it wouldn't lag like my current computer does. I am in no rush, but if there are good deals, then I will slowly accumulate parts. I will probably be looking for deals starting now and waiting up to 3 months to get the right stuff at the right price. This will be my first time building a computer, but I have been wanting to do this for a long time now. I live in the SF Bay area.. there is a Micro Center about an hour away, and a Frys about 20 minutes away from me.

First, a little about my situation. I have a Dell Vostro 200s with the following:
Intel Core 2 Duo E4500 2.2ghz
2 gb ddr2 ram
250 gb hard drive
Radeon 4650 512mb
20" 1650x1050

Everything except the video card is stock. And with this system, I can play comfortably at medium/low settings at max resolution in MOST cases. It lags whenever there's a huge battle during a 4v4 or 3v3 match, and sometimes in 2v2.. depending on how much stuff is in play. Also, my computer lags like crazy whenever I accidentally 'alt-tab' (though I've disabled it now)... but I was wondering what part of my computer would be the bottleneck for performance while I play SC2. I was thinking it's the CPU, but my friend told me it could also be my hard drive. While I can live with this for the most part, it is actually quite annoying, so I am thinking about building a better system. Besides Starcraft, I don't play any other games.

So right now, I'm looking to build a computer that gives me the best bang for my buck. I am looking to spend ~$500 if possible. I haven't looked too vigorously at parts yet, but I am planning on getting the Radeon 4850 as my GPU. I'll list the components now and come back to update this when I figure out what parts to get. Besides the GPU, I don't know what parts I want to build my computer from.

GPU:
Radeon HD 4850 - I think this card is adequate for my purposes and it can be had for $50 or less. I am open to other suggestions though.
Radeon HD 5770 - Thanks to suggestions, I might go with this card instead. $85.
Update: Went with the 4850 since I saw the deal for it today for $40AR

PSU:
There were 3 deals in the past few weeks that really interested me, but I didn't jump because I wasn't sure what the best choice was for me and my purposes. Here are the deals.
1. XFX 650W 80 Plus Bronze Modular Power Supply http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...?t=2834763
2. 600 Watt OCZ StealthXstream II 80 PLUS Certified Power Supply http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...?t=2824885
3. Antec EarthWatts Green EA-380D Green 380W 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Continuous power supply http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...?t=2820899
Update: Bought a Corsair CX430 for $20AR

I was thinking #3 would be good enough, but #2 would offer me more wiggle room in case I ever needed it. Anyway, I was thinking I'd go with something like the above, if another deal were to pop up.

CPU
Debating between 3 choices:
i3-2100 $100 - Cheap, good performance, but cannot OC
i5-2400 $150 - A little extra $, for a little better performance
i5-2500k $180 - A little extra $, good for OCing

I would like to get the best bang for the buck here. The i3 is pretty fast based on the benchmarks for SC2 I saw, but I'm not sure whether those benchmarks tested during big fights. For this reason, I was thinking of going with the 2400 because it's a little more expensive, but will give me better peace of mind. The 2500k to me is more of an enthusiast's CPU. I am not sure how comfortable I am with OCing, so I'm not sure if the 2500k is right for me. That plus I'd probably have to get a more expensive MOBO and PSU to go along with it.

Update: Most likely going with the i3-2100

Memory:
I was thinking 4gb ddr3 is good enough. I can always get more later. $30

MOBO, case:
Undecided. Probably something decent/inexpensive.
Update: Need help picking a solid MOBO for $50-100! For the case, I am currently looking at http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2924863. I don't know if this is a "good" case though.

Hard drive:
I am debating whether I should go with a SSD drive or not. I am a bang-for-your-buck guy so getting a SSD really sucks in terms of storage space for the money. If you can convince me that is has a noticeable effect on gaming, then I will really consider going with a SSD drive. Otherwise, I was thinking about going with a 1TB sata drive. I'm not sure if you'd recommend using this as a boot drive though. Are there any major drawbacks?
Update: Not going with SSD. I got a 750gb WD Caviar for $30.

So again, I am looking for advice on building my first computer. I am not too tech-savvy, so if I say something dumb, please correct me. I am in no rush, so I will probably wait until I see deals on certain parts. I am open to any suggestions, and appreciate any help you can offer. Thanks!


Update Recap May 17.
I purchased the GPU, PSU, and HDD. I am most likely going with the i3 2100. This leaves me with the MOBO, RAM, and case.
I still need help looking for a solid $50-100 MOBO.
The RAM should be pretty easy to find a deal here.
I am looking for a solid, inexpensive case <$50 if possible. What do you think of this case: http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2924863. I do not care about style, since it will be sitting at the corner of my room. I care about functionality and price

why not just put a new video card in your current pc. That along with maybe a ram upgrade and you should be fine in sc2.

I would go for upgrading to a new cpu/motherboard - ddr2 is expensive, and the CPU would also need an upgrade

as far as the PSU I would go for something higher then the 380W one, something around a 500W or 600W would be better

the SSD would help loading times, but that doesn't really matter much in sc2 since you would be waiting on everyone else to finish loading, even if you were done

the 4850 is a decent card, but it's a few generations behind and is lacking in some of the features that newer cards have - I would look into a newer card , something like the nvidia 450 + PSU deal that was for ~80 was a good deal

for the memory, just get some cheap ddr3 - 2x4gb ddr3 should be available for ~60 or so AR
cpu/mobo - I would go with intel's SB system right now since AMD won't have its stuff out until the summer.. microcenter has some good B&M deals on those

as far as the case, just find one that looks good + has good reviews

Here's a question that you need to ask yourself: How long are you planning to keep this PC (in additional to what you're going to be doing with it). I generally spend about $1k on my builds, but they last 6+ years usually before they're "too slow" and have to be replaced. The first 4 years = lag/bottleneck free, last 2 years has some compromises, depending on what I'm using it for.

Definately get a better video card (whatever is within your price range); between SC2's graphics + your resolution, this will be one of the bigger bottlenecks (as SC2 is one of your primary goals). I haven't really done the research, but I was actually thinking about buying two "cheaper" ATI cards and x-firing them, perhaps somebody else with x-fire can weigh in on any potential gains doing that, or just get one good card (and possibly xfire this in the future when the card drops to the $90 range). Keep in mind your PSU though, if you even think you're going to xfire in the future.

As stated by slapshot136, SSD isn't a biggie if you don't care about windows load time (if you have enough RAM, eg at least 4GB for Windows 7, you'll hardly ever hit swap file, so you'll be fine). But, if you want to try it, I think there's something going on with some Kingston SSDs on Amazon: http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2854635
Alternatively, there's a bigger one from Newegg on the Hot Deals forum as well.

Nowadays, I'd go min. 500W PSU (personal preference, 800-1000W); it's not going to draw a full 500W every minute the PC is on; depends on how much hardware and what you have going on.

RAM - you're on your own; I'd recommend 4GB at least now, and upgrade to 8GB when you see a price drop, between now and xmas.

MOBO - there are cheap ones available, (but again, consider if you're doing xfire) you don't need anything super special as this isn't a hardcore gaming PC, but make sure it supports your CPU and RAM. Try to stick with a mainstream company, so that it doesn't burn out 2 days after the warranty

Add the video card. I would drop the SSD in this price range.

Core i5-2500/H67 Blu-ray SuperCombo

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Com...mbo.634257

Quote from slapshot136 : I would go for upgrading to a new cpu/motherboard - ddr2 is expensive, and the CPU would also need an upgrade as far as the PSU I would go for something higher then the 380W one, something around a 500W or 600W would be better the SSD would help loading times, but that doesn't really matter much in sc2 since you would be waiting on everyone else to finish loading, even if you were done the 4850 is a decent card, but it's a few generations behind and is lacking in some of the features that newer cards have - I would look into a newer card , something like the nvidia 450 + PSU deal that was for ~80 was a good deal for the memory, just get some cheap ddr3 - 2x4gb ddr3 should be available for ~60 or so AR cpu/mobo - I would go with intel's SB system right now since AMD won't have its stuff out until the summer.. microcenter has some good B&M deals on those as far as the case, just find one that looks good + has good reviews

Thanks for all the input. About the video card.. I searched but did not see any deals for the PSU + GTS 450. However, I did see a deal now for a PSU + GTS 250 for about $80. Were you referring to this deal?
http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2854327

Either way, the deal above seems to be pretty good? Thoughts anybody? I understand that the GTS 250 and the HD 4850 are older cards, but I think they are quite adequate for SC2. I am not sure if I need a newer card, especially because I don't want to spend extra money on a faster card if it isn't really necessary. I mean, I am perfectly happy playing on medium settings at max resolution.

Quote from somebody : Here's a question that you need to ask yourself: How long are you planning to keep this PC (in additional to what you're going to be doing with it). I generally spend about $1k on my builds, but they last 6+ years usually before they're "too slow" and have to be replaced. The first 4 years = lag/bottleneck free, last 2 years has some compromises, depending on what I'm using it for. Definately get a better video card (whatever is within your price range); between SC2's graphics + your resolution, this will be one of the bigger bottlenecks (as SC2 is one of your primary goals). I haven't really done the research, but I was actually thinking about buying two "cheaper" ATI cards and x-firing them, perhaps somebody else with x-fire can weigh in on any potential gains doing that, or just get one good card (and possibly xfire this in the future when the card drops to the $90 range). Keep in mind your PSU though, if you even think you're going to xfire in the future. As stated by slapshot136, SSD isn't a biggie if you don't care about windows load time (if you have enough RAM, eg at least 4GB for Windows 7, you'll hardly ever hit swap file, so you'll be fine). But, if you want to try it, I think there's something going on with some Kingston SSDs on Amazon: http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2854635 Alternatively, there's a bigger one from Newegg on the Hot Deals forum as well. Nowadays, I'd go min. 500W PSU (personal preference, 800-1000W); it's not going to draw a full 500W every minute the PC is on; depends on how much hardware and what you have going on. RAM - you're on your own; I'd recommend 4GB at least now, and upgrade to 8GB when you see a price drop, between now and xmas. MOBO - there are cheap ones available, (but again, consider if you're doing xfire) you don't need anything super special as this isn't a hardcore gaming PC, but make sure it supports your CPU and RAM. Try to stick with a mainstream company, so that it doesn't burn out 2 days after the warranty

Actually, while I did say I wanted to spend around $500 for a computer, I think something around $700-800 isn't too out of reach. I figured about $50-$100 for the GPU, $100-200 for the CPU + MOBO, $75 for ram, $100 for case + PSU, and $50-100 for a hard drive. But I mean, I don't need the fastest/best parts.. I just want a better overall system than I currently have.

Quote from evongugg : Add the video card. I would drop the SSD in this price range. Core i5-2500/H67 Blu-ray SuperCombo

I am also open to the idea of buying a prebuilt computer and swapping in a video card/PSU. Depends whatever is cheaper.

Anyone have any recommendations on a CPU? Which has a better value nowadays in the mid-range CPU Intel or AMD? Also, SC2 is known to be more CPU-intensive than GPU.. so I am looking for something pretty decent.. but still need suggestions. Also, I read that overclocking is the way to go for SC2.. does that just mean I need to get a better PSU and MOBO? Will the above 650W PSU be good enough if I were to overclock my CPU? I am thinking about getting either a i3 or i5..

Building a computer is most definitely cheaper. I would recommend buying a new motherboard, power supply, ram, case (it's going to be hard to use your dell case.. just don't try it). You can use the old hard drive if you want.

For a budget sc2 build I would recommend getting an i3 or quad core amd, but if you are willing to put more money into the build I would get an i5. (SC2 is really dependent on cpu, the faster your cpu the more fps). You could always over clock the i3/i5 and buy a heat sink for 20 - 30 bucks.

A 650 watt psu is safe, (if you are planning on future upgrades a 650~750 watt will do). Remember to never buy cheap psu, Seasonic is preferable

You can buy 4 gbs of DDR3 ram when they are on sale for about 35~40 dollars. Antec 300 case is cheap (if you want to step up a bit go for the lan cool cases or antec 902).

If you want to upgrade your hard drive (probably do) you could go get a 60 gb ssd for a boot drive and a 500 ~ 1 tb caviar black western digital drive.

Radeon 5770 can be found for 80~90 bucks, it can play starcraft 2 on ultra settings on 1080p and can play modern games.

This is well under 600.

Here is a perfect deal right up your alley:
http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2854327

650w PSU and GTS 250
If you're willing to wait for the rebates then that should be enough to play SC2 graphics wise.
The thing though is that SC2 is more CPU intensive than GPU intensive.

Idealy you'd want at least a tri-core to run SC2 nicely or even a highly clocked dual core cpu would work. It shouldn't be too hard to find those deals from time to time.

If you need more help, just ask.

Quote from pyrotekneks : Here is a perfect deal right up your alley: http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2854327 650w PSU and GTS 250 If you're willing to wait for the rebates then that should be enough to play SC2 graphics wise. The thing though is that SC2 is more CPU intensive than GPU intensive. Idealy you'd want at least a tri-core to run SC2 nicely or even a highly clocked dual core cpu would work. It shouldn't be too hard to find those deals from time to time. If you need more help, just ask.

Yeah, I am probably going to get this once I get home from work. I was just waiting for someone to confirm that combo will work in my situation

Quote from APhamX : Building a computer is most definitely cheaper. I would recommend buying a new motherboard, power supply, ram, case (it's going to be hard to use your dell case.. just don't try it). You can use the old hard drive if you want. For a budget sc2 build I would recommend getting an i3 or quad core amd, but if you are willing to put more money into the build I would get an i5. (SC2 is really dependent on cpu, the faster your cpu the more fps). You could always over clock the i3/i5 and buy a heat sink for 20 - 30 bucks. A 650 watt psu is safe, (if you are planning on future upgrades a 650~750 watt will do). Remember to never buy cheap psu, Seasonic is preferable You can buy 4 gbs of DDR3 ram when they are on sale for about 35~40 dollars. Antec 300 case is cheap (if you want to step up a bit go for the lan cool cases or antec 902). If you want to upgrade your hard drive (probably do) you could go get a 60 gb ssd for a boot drive and a 500 ~ 1 tb caviar black western digital drive. Radeon 5770 can be found for 80~90 bucks, it can play starcraft 2 on ultra settings on 1080p and can play modern games. This is well under 600.

For a second drive, you don't have to go with a wd caviar black for storage purposes (you'd be booting off the SSD), a wd green would suffice (but if you see a SD for the black, go with the black). As for your current Dell, if you've had it for ~3yrs or more, get a new hard drive imo.


For CPU, what I usually do is find "what I'm willing to pay for". For example (made up numbers for illustration only), let's say I'm looking at i5. Top of the line = alot of $$$s. Look down the line and you'll see when costs become negligable, e.g. from $500 to $450 to $300 to $290 to $280... and so on. Here, I'd get the $300 one. Then, I'd look at the i7 to see what that range is - if I can get a similiar i7 for ~310-40, then I'd bite and go for the extra power for the few dollars upgrade. At least, this was my old method, lol. I got lucky and got 2 i7s from Microcenter last black friday for $200ea.? or $300, I don't remember (and normally, I'd go straight to the i7 to maximize the life of the PC). If you're willing to pay $5-700 for a "mediocre" upgrade, why not just take that extra step?

Oh, you can reuse the dell DVD drive if you want to save $20 now, then wait for blu ray to drop in price and upgrade that during xmas.

And yeah, don't try it with your dell case!

Quote from somebody : For a second drive, you don't have to go with a wd caviar black for storage purposes (you'd be booting off the SSD), a wd green would suffice (but if you see a SD for the black, go with the black). As for your current Dell, if you've had it for ~3yrs or more, get a new hard drive imo. For CPU, what I usually do is find "what I'm willing to pay for". For example (made up numbers for illustration only), let's say I'm looking at i5. Top of the line = alot of $$$s. Look down the line and you'll see when costs become negligable, e.g. from $500 to $450 to $300 to $290 to $280... and so on. Here, I'd get the $300 one. Then, I'd look at the i7 to see what that range is - if I can get a similiar i7 for ~310-40, then I'd bite and go for the extra power for the few dollars upgrade. At least, this was my old method, lol. I got lucky and got 2 i7s from Microcenter last black friday for $200ea.? or $300, I don't remember (and normally, I'd go straight to the i7 to maximize the life of the PC). If you're willing to pay $5-700 for a "mediocre" upgrade, why not just take that extra step? Oh, you can reuse the dell DVD drive if you want to save $20 now, then wait for blu ray to drop in price and upgrade that during xmas. And yeah, don't try it with your dell case!

He is an hour away from mc. And I got two i7 950's for 200 too! I was just suggesting caviar black because a 60 gb is a little small. He might have other games too and programs (unless he is willing to upgrade to a larger ssd). If not you could always get a tb samsung drive for 40~50.

There's a CPU & HDD deal @ Microcenter, if it's not too late for you...

http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...&t=2853643

Quote from APhamX : He is an hour away from mc. And I got two i7 950's for 200 too! I was just suggesting caviar black because a 60 gb is a little small. He might have other games too and programs (unless he is willing to upgrade to a larger ssd). If not you could always get a tb samsung drive for 40~50.

The blacks are nice, one of the 2 systems I built with those 2 CPUs has 2 1TB blacks in raid 0, and a 3rd for second drive (best buy, $70 ea during black friday). System boots up pretty fast, but when you're copying large files (eg mp4/mkvs), it really shows on the paired up drives vs the single one

I do agree on the SSD+secondary HDD, and for that, wd greens are cheaper (small savings though; but I'd rather put that into better CPU), eat less power, and are slower (7.2k vs 10k I think? getting old, lol), so if he's looking to cut corners, that's a cheap corner.

The only thing is, if he goes SSD or non-SSD, I believe the SSDs are chip limited based on SATA ratings, and the non-SSDs, regardless of what SATA rating they are, pretty much won't exceed SATA1 speeds (mechanical limitations).

bah, I'm rambling... getting old, lol.

Quote from somebody : The blacks are nice, one of the 2 systems I built with those 2 CPUs has 2 1TB blacks in raid 0, and a 3rd for second drive (best buy, $70 ea during black friday). System boots up pretty fast, but when you're copying large files (eg mp4/mkvs), it really shows on the paired up drives vs the single one I do agree on the SSD+secondary HDD, and for that, wd greens are cheaper (small savings though; but I'd rather put that into better CPU), eat less power, and are slower (7.2k vs 10k I think? getting old, lol), so if he's looking to cut corners, that's a cheap corner. The only thing is, if he goes SSD or non-SSD, I believe the SSDs are chip limited based on SATA ratings, and the non-SSDs, regardless of what SATA rating they are, pretty much won't exceed SATA1 speeds (mechanical limitations). bah, I'm rambling... getting old, lol.

Blacks are 7200 rpm green are 5400-5900 rpm