In-ground Sprinkler Systems: Two zones fail (Summary Update: Post #79)

Quote from Ram|bunc|tious : Well you were right about not unhooking the right valve at the control box. I wanted to turn on the system today (just going to let zone 1 run while the other zones cycle through then kill the water supply) but a different zone wouldn't turn on (because I had unhooked it). I was going to try to check the diaphragm to see if I could change it, found a couple videos on youtube on how to do this. Without knowing the model of the valve right now, assuming I will after I really get in there, can I remove and clean the diaphragm? No time this AM, gotta get the kids off the school. Thanks for your thoughts, half of this is just to amuse .DC. Couldn't tell you

I guess it is possible that something is in the valve and you could clean it, but that really is a long shot. Diaphragms get weak ( wear out ) and sometimes need replacement.

How are you bleeding the valve if you can't get to it? If you can see the valve you should be able to tell if there are any leaks around it. Especially around the top part where the screws are.

Quote from Ram|bunc|tious : I don't have a multimeter (.DC. is going to harass me on this) and probably need to have one around. Not sure I can hit hardware store in next day or two, so its Amazon for me, would either of these work? http://www.amazon.com/Mastech-MS8...51&sr=1-10 http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PDMT05...15&sr=1-29

Sure they would work. Got a feeling you wouldn't be using one too often so you don't need to spend a lot on it. Do you have a harborfreight near you?...Even those cheep ones they sell would do the job. Best if you could just borrow one.

Quote from Ram|bunc|tious : Ok, got it stopped using bleed valve as you suggested. I wanted to "check the solenoid" by moving it from one valve to another to see if the solenoid was any good or if it was the wiring. Sounds like a good idea, if its just the solenoid, then I'm in luck!

Ok tried this by switching solenoids from valve 1 to valve 3. Turned water back on and zone 1 came back on so changing solenoid had no effect. Diaphragm "looked" ok, no tears or rips. Do I replace anyways?

fwiw I think the solenoid from zone 1 IS indeed bad, the plunger wouldn't come out (no spring?) but that sure looks to be an easy replacement but I don't think that's the problem.

Quote from repitall : How are you bleeding the valve if you can't get to it? If you can see the valve you should be able to tell if there are any leaks around it. Especially around the top part where the screws are.

No leaks, took the cover off zone one and checked out the diaphragm. Hopefully I can find a replacement diaphragm and solenoid at hardware store tomorrow.

Ok, now I am lost as to what issue is with what valve.

Do you have a multimeter yet?

I'll try to be back for more help tomorrow. I think we need to start with some basics

Can you turn on and off the zones with just the bleed valve? If not then you either have a diaphragm problem or debris in the valve. You may have to take the diaphragm out to check. If you can turn them on and off, then the diaphragm is probably not the problem, unless it is damaged at the hole where the solenoid is.

Check this first


.

Quote from repitall : I think we need to start with some basics

Ok, here is a summary of where I stand (going back to basics).

- Zone 1 won't shut off
- 6 zone system, 6 strand wire from controller
- I have found zones 1,2,3
- Opening bleed valve for zone 1 doesn't help
- Opening bleeders for zone 2 & 3 will start those zones
- No leakage of note in valve boxes
- Using multimeter, determined 24 volts at zones 1,2,3 (I borrowed a neighbors)

Other notes:
- When I removed solenoid from zone 3, I heard a lot of air sucking (normal?)

I'm running off to Lowe's/Home Depot to see if I can buy a pair of diaphragms and solenoids (to replace those on zone 1 and have a spare)

Ok,

One zone at a time. You need to take the diaphragm out of Zone 1 and make sure there is no debris in the valve. Probably need to replace the diaphragm and now you know the solenoid is bad and on zone 3, so replace that also.
If you cannot find the parts, try to buy another valve that is the same and use the diaphragm and the solenoid from it. In fact, if you get another of the same valve, just use the whole top part of the valve and this will replace the flow and bleed valve also.

Since you now know that you have the proper voltage on 1,2 and 3 you have eliminated that part. I hope you checked the voltage with the switch off to make sure that it still does not show 24 volts. This would eliminate the switch being a problem.

With the solenoid disconnected you have to be able to manually start and stop zone 1 with the bleed valve.

Quote from repitall : One zone at a time. You need to take the diaphragm out of Zone 1 and make sure there is no debris in the valve. Probably need to replace the diaphragm and now you know the solenoid is bad and on zone 3, so replace that also. If you cannot find the parts, try to buy another valve that is the same and use the diaphragm and the solenoid from it. In fact, if you get another of the same valve, just use the whole top part of the valve and this will replace the flow and bleed valve also.

Couldn't find the parts at Lowe's, but you're right, it'll probably make more sense to purchase two new valves and just replace the top part from each. Unfortunately, I can't find a model number, looks like Rain Bird, and there is "D94" stamped on top but no searches appear with that as a model.

Quote from repitall : Since you now know that you have the proper voltage on 1,2 and 3 you have eliminated that part. I hope you checked the voltage with the switch off to make sure that it still does not show 24 volts. This would eliminate the switch being a problem.

Nope ... but I just did 0 volts.

Quote from repitall : With the solenoid disconnected you have to be able to manually start and stop zone 1 with the bleed valve.

Oh??? Well this is news ... I'll certainly reassemble the valve (took out the parts to go to hardware store with me) and try this.

Quote from Ram|bunc|tious : Couldn't find the parts at Lowe's, but you're right, it'll probably make more sense to purchase two new valves and just replace the top part from each. Unfortunately, I can't find a model number, looks like Rain Bird, and there is "D94" stamped on top but no searches appear with that as a model. Yeah, this can be a problem. Sometimes other models use some of the same parts. You may have to find an Irrigation Supply company locally that can sell you the valves or parts. Nope ... but I just did 0 volts. Ok Good Oh??? Well this is news ... I'll certainly reassemble the valve (took out the parts to go to hardware store with me) and try this.

I mean electrically disconnected. The solenoid has to be installed.

Quote from repitall : I mean electrically disconnected. The solenoid has to be installed.

Got it, will try (following Father's Day stuff).

Happy Father's Day everyone (assuming no Mom's hanging out in this thread)

Quote from repitall : I mean electrically disconnected. The solenoid has to be installed.

Worked like a charm, why didn't I try that earlier?

So ... looks like this is a Toro 264 series ... but does it have flow control or not? How do I tell? 264-06-04 and 264-16-04 are the valve part numbers. Doesn't make sense just to order parts, I'm going to order a pair of valves and strip'm. I'm guessing I don't have flow control and they just run full-open?

Quote from Ram|bunc|tious : Worked like a charm, why didn't I try that earlier? So ... looks like this is a Toro 264 series ... but does it have flow control or not? How do I tell? 264-06-04 and 264-16-04 are the valve part numbers. Doesn't make sense just to order parts, I'm going to order a pair of valves and strip'm. I'm guessing I don't have flow control and they just run full-open?

Great news...
Glad to hear you've had some success

It looks like the 254 is with flow control and the 264 is without it. The 06 or 16 is the body style, which should not make a difference if you just using the top parts. The 04 is 1" fitting.

The only reason you should need the flow control is to regulate the pressure to the heads. Sometimes it is needed, but I have no way to know in your case.

Anyway here's the spec sheet, look at the bottom right for what the numbers mean

Quote from repitall : Great news... Glad to hear you've had some success

Yeap!

Little heat wave passing through today, but I all zones up this morning (2 manual by bleeder valve) this AM. Just need to order parts to restore system to former glory!

Quote from repitall : If you cannot find the parts, try to buy another valve that is the same and use the diaphragm and the solenoid from it. In fact, if you get another of the same valve, just use the whole top part of the valve and this will replace the flow and bleed valve also.

Found the valves locally (literally walking distance from work!) and paid a premium for them $34/each (~$22 online) but I hooked both up this morning and the system was running great! Looks like I'm out of the woods for this year, check back next year for more adventures of home ownership

Thank you very, very, very much for your time and thoughts. I couldn't have done it without you! x10

Glad to be able to help.
When you have nothing to do, I would suggest trying to find the valves for zones 4,5 and 6. You really don't want to wait til there is a problem and then have to find them.