British austerity not working

Quote from gunnerusa : We have austerity too. It started off slow, through GOP anti-patriotic obstructionism in Congress. Then it ramped up after 2010, when anti-American Republicans took many statehouses and took all steps short of deploying troops to make war on the American people.

What is patriotic or American about 70% debt-to-GDP ratios and 15 trillion in debt and where people pay almost half of everything they make to the government?

Quote from Deusxmachina : "I don't get it, Bob. The previous rounds of quantitative easing didn't work. What should we do now?" "Let's do more quantitative easing." "Excellent idea." You know what we need. More solar panel investing.

Cause we can't compete with the Chinese.... we should just give up and let everyone else do all the manufacturing. I'm sure they'll come to us for their retirement planning.....

Quote from OhNoItsDEVO : And what led them into the situation they are now facing, where austerity is needed, to bring them back to a fiscally sound state?

Worldwide financial crisis triggered by the US housing bubble popping.

Quote : What would YOU propose they do to get their situation in order?

Something that works.

By all means, they need to stop investing in college education for their young people. That will certainly help out in their competitiveness....

Quote from OhNoItsDEVO : What would YOU propose they do to get their situation in order?

Quote from 124nic8 : Something that works.

Nice dodge.

Quote from Deusxmachina : Nice dodge.

No, Honda. Austerity is not working.

If I run up $70K in credit card bills over the next twelve months to spruce up the house, go on vacation, and get a tan, a superficial glance one year from now will make it look as if my neighbor's decision to save his funds to pay off bills is "not working".

Yes, if you save your money you aren't spending it.

Quote from jamegumb : If I run up $70K in credit card bills over the next twelve months to spruce up the house, go on vacation, and get a tan, a superficial glance one year from now will make it look as if my neighbor's decision to save his funds to pay off bills is "not working". Yes, if you save your money you aren't spending it.

You're making the error of imagining that government finances are similar to your own.

Just like creationists cannot comprehend a scale of billions of years.

Quote from 124nic8 : You're making the error of imagining that government finances are similar to your own. Just like creationists cannot comprehend a scale of billions of years.

I'm making no such error. I'm pointing out how simplistic and silly your OP is.

Yes, if governments spend less now, it's acknowledged that current activity will be less. There is some "stimulus" effect to spending beyond your means.

Your implication seems to believe that there's a school of thought that holds austerity measures should come without any associative headaches. I don't think there's any such school, nor do I think that people approach such issues lightly. Countries are where they are now due to profligate spending over many decades. Eventually, the spending can no longer be sustained.

Quote from jamegumb : I'm making no such error. I'm pointing out how simplistic and silly your OP is.

Nope, it's your analogy that's "simplistic and silly" and not applicable.

Quote : Yes, if governments spend less now, it's acknowledged that current activity will be less. There is some "stimulus" effect to spending beyond your means.

And you're assuming that an economy will bounce back quicker from a lower level of activity?

Quote : Your implication seems to believe that there's a school of thought that holds austerity measures should come without any associative headaches. I don't think there's any such school, nor do I think that people approach such issues lightly. Countries are where they are now due to profligate spending over many decades. Eventually, the spending can no longer be sustained.

They can with the former levels of economic activity. The issue is how to more quickly achieve that.

Quote from 124nic8 : They can with the former levels of economic activity. The issue is how to more quickly achieve that.

Former levels are not good enough to "grow" a debt based economy, it always must increase.

Try debt free money. Why does the Federal government pay interest on our own money anyway?

Quote from PhucilliJerry : Former levels are not good enough to "grow" a debt based economy, it always must increase.

Former levels would be an increase from current levels.

Quote : Try debt free money. Why does the Federal government pay interest on our own money anyway?

Cause politicians keep cutting taxes.

Quote from 124nic8 : Former levels would be an increase from current levels.

True, but it won't last long as it would need to begin to grow again immediately. If you want to help this economy, go out and take out as many loans as you can. That is the best way to prop up a debt based monetary system economy. That is how money expands and how we will inflate the next bubble (aka, Business Cycle).

Quote from 124nic8 : Cause politicians keep cutting taxes.

What tax rates would we need, to not have debt on which to pay interest?

Where would all of the money created as government debt come from if they didn't borrow?

Spending has no role? How about the politicians only spend what they bring in in tax revenue? Imagine if they could only start wars or new nanny state programs by actually increasing our taxes rather than just "borrowing" from the Fed.

Quote from 124nic8 : Nope, it's your analogy that's "simplistic and silly" and not applicable.

I'm not the person who invented a position people are taking and then argued against it.

Quote from 124nic8 : And you're assuming that an economy will bounce back quicker from a lower level of activity?

I think it would have a lower current GDP but a better (less leveraged) foundation for the future.

Increasing the GDP doesn't seem to me to be the end-all be-all. Pretty sure that's what the big stimulus a few years ago was designed to do, and I don't see the evidence that the economy at present is "bouncing back quicker" than it would be at present had no stimulus been passed.

There's definitely an argument that the last two years have been better due to the stimulus. Though at what cost?

Quote from 124nic8 : They can with the former levels of economic activity. The issue is how to more quickly achieve that.

There's evidence all around the globe that the spending levels we've reached cannot be sustained. England itself is one example. What would you have them do aside from austerity? Just keep spending and hope they can keep the balls juggled as long as possible?

Quote from gunnerusa : We have austerity too. State governments are shriveling, public services are being eviscerated, schools are closing, non-tax service fees are increasing, etc... We have austerity too. It started off slow, through GOP anti-patriotic obstructionism in Congress. Then it ramped up after 2010, when anti-American Republicans took many statehouses and took all steps short of deploying troops to make war on the American people. God help us all if the worst among us, the Republicans, take full control of Congress or even the White House.

Thats some ignorant shit...