Secularism - What is it?

Discuss.

There seems to be traditional secularism, which is rooted in a pragmatic solution to religious oppression and war....as is found in the Christian tradition.

Then there is the radical secularism which is developing into a complete Atheo-Scientismism Humanist all encompassing belief system...which seeks dominion over Religions as a substitute for the Religious basis for society. That religions should be private affairs, and have no consequence in public life. The objection to this by majority religious populations mirrors the objection to Religious dominion or hegemony by the Atheo-Scientismist Humanist Secularists, with the addition of it being a minority dominion over the majority of the population.

What say you?

You can try to make it sound like pragmatic things comes from your christian tradition but repeating them wont make it true.

Keep your religion to yourself, outside of the government, schools and laws. Treat every human as equal under HUMAN laws.

No one has a problem with your religion as long as you keep it to yourself...

Isnt that what people said to homosexuals?


But you probably have and interesting perspective on secularism, given your Turkish affiliation. Kemalist oppression of religion. And then we have you apologizing for and defending the Islamist AKP.

Whereas Christians agreed upon secular institutions as a solution, Muslims had it forced upon them in Turkey which was trying to mimic successful Christian European ways.

How about your thoughts on this subject?

How cute EV

For me homosexuals are humans and what they do is their business and they deserve to be treated equally as any other human. But for you, they are sinners and must be stopped. Who do you think Jesus would support with, with seeing a gay person as another human or with people who perverted his teachings based on their personal beliefs?


Ataturk oppressed extremism not personal religion which is exactly what I believe in. Apologizing, hardly, I will give people their due when they deserve it and criticize when needed. Economy and growth wise they have done a marvelous job, expression of freedom wise, they have done a horrible job.

But leave AKP and Islam for a while (if you can cause every 2 posts you put has to have Islam inside it) and concentrate on the subject. Why are so afraid of Secularism, why is it that you dont believe people should keep their religion to themselves. Why the need to share the good news and then bitch and moan about it when people had enough of your goodnews and declare it as hogwash?

Secularism which allows freedom of, and treats all religions equally is not equivalent to dominion or hegemony by the majority religion.

Quote from 124nic8 : Secularism which allows freedom of, and treats all religions equally is not equivalent to dominion or hegemony by the majority religion.

If both allow Freedom of Expression and Thought, then why is one better than the other?

Quote from EscapeVelo : If both allow Freedom of Expression and Thought, then why is one better than the other?

You mean like allowing a Christian prayer at a government sponsored public event but not other religions' "expression and thought"?

Quote from 124nic8 : You mean like allowing a Christian prayer at a government sponsored public event but not other religions' "expression and thought"?

You mean like not allowing any religious expression and thought in the public instutions?

Is the tyranny of the minority superior to the tyranny of the majority?

Quote from EscapeVelo : You mean like not allowing any religious expression and thought in the public instutions?

That would be equal treatment.

Quote : Is the tyranny of the minority superior to the tyranny of the majority?

There is no "tyranny." People are allowed religious expression at their private events.

It's not equal when only one (majority) gets expression rights.

Quote from 124nic8 : That would be equal treatment.

No the Secularists would hold dominion, given free reign in the public sphere, whilst others speech would be infringed upon.

Quote : There is no "tyranny." People are allowed religious expression at their private events. It's not equal when only one (majority) gets expression rights.

The majority gets slight preferential treatment, whilst others are free to practice or not and speak as the wish, albeit publicly and privately.

This seems the best, if imperfect, compromise solution. Instead of banishing free expression of the majority religion within the institutions.

Quote from EscapeVelo : No the Secularists would hold dominion, given free reign in the public sphere, whilst others speech would be infringed upon.

You're being disingenuous. Secularist expression is by definition non-religious.

You're only attempting to equate them cause it serves your agenda.

Quote : The majority gets slight preferential treatment, whilst others are free to practice or not and speak as the wish, albeit publicly and privately. This seems the best, if imperfect, compromise solution. Instead of banishing free expression of the majority religion within the institutions.

"Seems best" cause it's your religion. People who prefer other religions or none at all have a different opinion as to what is best.

How convenient that the Secularists speech is not restricted, but other competing worldviews are, heh?

How dare they try to uphold the first amendment, communist bastards!

Quote from EscapeVelo : Isnt that what people said to homosexuals?

Do you mean "No one has a problem with your homosexuality as long as you keep it to yourself"? If so, then I suggest you read about Alan Turing and how a true hero and genius was treated.