Washington has legalized gay marriage!!!! ((((Update in post 814))))

Quote from Doctor_Wu : Psychology takes its bearings from 'norms' established in society... or, as you say, "opinion". That is not an incorrect observation. But to admit that it is so dependent on measuring "normal" is also to recognize its inadequacy in diagnosing homosexuality as either a 'disorder' or 'normal'. If we admit that psychology is based on opinion, then we should also realize that it has nothing of significance to say on the subject. Its diagnosis is inconsequential.

Well, we can admit it and understand it's shortcomings or not admit to it and be a victim of it's shortcomings.

Quote from hsjpatman : Maybe that's because it's been truly looked at in a scientific unbiased way that it was previously not.

More likely, propaganda and political pressures has influenced psychology.

Quote from hsjpatman : That's what you want to believe so you'll keep on telling yourself that.

I tell myself that because that's where my research leads me. Whereas you believe what you believe because that's where the pro-gay propaganda leads you.

Quote from hsjpatman : Being able to recognize it as unscientific junk is also a different thing. You should try and take off your blinders.

You know, I used to believe as you did at one time, that homosexuals were a victim of their own biology and could not help the way they feel. Then I did research and realized I was wrong. I do hope you'll open your eyes one of these days.

Quote from hsjpatman : I'm not fine with it no matter if the molesting is done by a gay or straight person. It's you that seems to be fine with it when it's done by straight people. Otherwise you wouldn't have a double standard in what you think would help prevent it, and that thing is marriage. I'm sorry that your own argument destroys itself, you'll just have to live with it.

I think you know that molestations by anyone is not okay with me. But when you live in a sex-crazed society that makes people obsessed with sex, what do you expect? It's on TV, radio, billboards, internet, etc...

The only way to prevent it is to lessen the influence of it, but I don't see you offering to help out in that endeavor, likely because you're obsessed with it as well. If we could learn to be a society that wants to be dignified and moral instead of hormonal and depraved, these perversions would decrease significantly.

And your inaccurate observation that my argument destroys itself is severely lacking. Just because most molestations are committed by a heterosexual does not mean that a heterosexual is more likely to molest a child. Research actually suggests the opposite: that 2% of the population (homosexuals) is responsible for 20% or more of the molestations.

Quote from hsjpatman : I do have a kid and he will be taught to not be an intolerant, discriminatory, bigot. He will be taught that refusing gay people entry into ones home, simply because they are gay, is horribly ignorant, and just as discriminatory as if they were to not allow blacks in their home because they're black.

How about because they're perverts, are possibly a danger to themselves, and a bad influence on others? Those are all very good reasons not to let a homosexual into your home and is supported by science.

Quote from hsjpatman : I'm done wasting my time with you, you're a lost cause and I feel sorry for everyone that has to deal with you in real life.

No offense, but I'm having a devil of a time talking sense to you, so I can't say this farewell is bittersweet in the least.

Quote from charles052 : Well, we can admit it and understand it's shortcomings or not admit to it and be a victim of it's shortcomings.

Understanding it requires us to admit that its diagnosis of 'disorder' is meaningless, just as its current endorsement of it as 'normal' is meaningless. But you seem to see it as genuine in the past (when it diagnosed it as disordered), and corrupted now, b/c it is ambivalent about homosexual behavior. I don't think we can have it both ways.

Quote from charles052 : I tell myself that because that's where my research leads me.

It's confirmation bias of the highest order. You will never find anything that disagrees with your religious views - not because your religious views are 100% logical but because you want them to be.

Quote : How about because they're perverts, are possibly a danger to themselves, and a bad influence on others? Those are all very good reasons not to let a homosexual into your home and is supported by science.

Now you're descending into parody

Quote from Doctor_Wu : Understanding it requires us to admit that its diagnosis of 'disorder' is meaningless, just as its current endorsement of it as 'normal' is meaningless. But you seem to see it as genuine in the past (when it diagnosed it as disordered), and corrupted now, b/c it is ambivalent about homosexual behavior. I don't think we can have it both ways.

I agree and I disagree. Psychology in the past believed that homosexuality was a disorder that could be treated. I concur with this. I think it's a fact that it's treatable and, in most cases, completely reversible. But, that's just my opinion. I think that with more research, psychology could provide a wonderful, effective, and harmless method of making gays normal again.

But that's where the problem lies. Whether something is 'normal' or not is the opinion. Considering the political atmosphere nowadays concerning homosexuality, I'm not surprised in the least that psychologists are saying that it's perfectly normal whether they actually believe that or not. We now live in a society where biased research is fine as long as it falls in line with the criteria of political correctness.

Then again, I must admit that I don't trust psychologists or doctors to provide proper diagnoses or treatments because I believe that modern medicine is largely just a huge marketing ploy.

Whether or not my observation weakens my argument is of very little concern to me. But with psychology, as well as every other field of science and medicine, we must separate fact from opinion. Is homosexuality treatable? Is homosexuality normal? The answer to the 1st has a large probability of being a factual answer whereas the answer to the later can only be an opinion.

Interesting...



Priests at a number of Roman Catholic parishes in the area have said no to the gathering of signatures for Referendum 74 at their churches — putting them at odds with their archbishop on a statewide ballot measure seeking repeal of Washington's same-sex marriage law.

The majority of parishes in Western Washington are expected to make the petitions available — some as soon as this Sunday, following Mass, according to a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Seattle.

But pastors of at least three prominent Catholic churches in Seattle — St. Mary's Church, St. Joseph Parish and St. James Cathedral — have notified members that the petitions will not be made available there.

In an item posted on St. James' website, the Very Rev. Michael G. Ryan said he decided not to permit the petitions after a discussion with the pastoral team. He said he believed allowing the petitions would "prove hurtful and seriously divisive in our community. In saying this, I do realize that there are some who will be disappointed with this decision."

Full story: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017978133_catholics14m.html

Quote from Zoe Moon : Interesting... Priests at a number of Roman Catholic parishes in the area have said no to the gathering of signatures for Referendum 74 at their churches — putting them at odds with their archbishop on a statewide ballot measure seeking repeal of Washington's same-sex marriage law. The majority of parishes in Western Washington are expected to make the petitions available — some as soon as this Sunday, following Mass, according to a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Seattle. But pastors of at least three prominent Catholic churches in Seattle — St. Mary's Church, St. Joseph Parish and St. James Cathedral — have notified members that the petitions will not be made available there. In an item posted on St. James' website, the Very Rev. Michael G. Ryan said he decided not to permit the petitions after a discussion with the pastoral team. He said he believed allowing the petitions would "prove hurtful and seriously divisive in our community. In saying this, I do realize that there are some who will be disappointed with this decision." Full story: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017978133_catholics14m.html

LOL! WA Catholics are a smaller fraction of the population than self described "non-religious" (17% vs 21%). They (Catholics) aren't a major voting bloc like they are out east.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122075...ely.aspx#2

Quote from Xygonn : LOL! WA Catholics are the same fraction of the population as self described WA atheists (20% each). They aren't a major voting bloc like they are out east.

Except Catholics aren't the only bloc in town.

When you add in the Baptists, Mormons, Independents, and the others who would likely be against homo marriages, there would be a much larger percentage than the 20% athiests.

Quote from nobama : Except Catholics aren't the only bloc in town. When you add in the Baptists, Mormons, Independents, and the others who would likely be against homo marriages, there would be a much larger percentage than the 20% athiests.

It's gonna be hard to carry only 52% say religion is an important part of their lives, and that probably includes some of the religious that are fine with gay marriage.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122075...ely.aspx#2

Washington is the 6th least religious state. Way below the 63% average in the US on religious importance.

Quote from Xygonn : It's gonna be hard to carry only 52% say religion is an important part of their lives, and that probably includes some of the religious that are fine with gay marriage. http://www.gallup.com/poll/122075...ely.aspx#2 Washington is the 6th least religious state. Way below the 63% average in the US on religious importance.

It may be hard, but we're going to do it.... Or at least we're going to be able to say we tried, which is better than doing nothing...

Quote from nobama : It may be hard, but we're going to do it.... Or at least we're going to be able to say we tried, which is better than doing nothing...

you're from washington?

Quote from thikthird : you're from washington?

Yes, the land of fruits in pears.

Quote from nobama : Except Catholics aren't the only bloc in town. When you add in the Baptists, Mormons, Independents, and the others who would likely be against homo marriages, there would be a much larger percentage than the 20% athiests.

But aren't we being told that opposition to gay marriage isn't based on religion?

Catholic Raping little deaf brown boys = good
Two loving people committed to each other = bad

The Pope can suck it.