Do we REALLY want manufacturing jobs?

Quote from Anonymouse : Not exactly sure what your point was in quoting me? That my nephew only became a carpenter because journalism jobs are scarce?

Pretty sure he's pointing out your comment, "guarantee hire at any place he wants to work" is full of shit. Sorry but a degree at U of W-Madison no more guarantees as job than a degree at one of the top 10 schools for journalism. You admit that jobs are scarce and your nephew didn't even go to a top 10 school but somehow he can write his own ticket but instead prefers to be a carpenter. Yea, sure, whatever you say 'mouse.

What kind of logic does it take to figure that a country can be prosperous if it does not take tangible raw materials and turn it into saleable goods?

I can't fathom the ignorance.

Work is work, as long as the bills get paid

Quote from darkfrog : Pretty sure he's pointing out your comment, "guarantee hire at any place he wants to work" is full of shit. Sorry but a degree at U of W-Madison no more guarantees as job than a degree at one of the top 10 schools for journalism. You admit that jobs are scarce and your nephew didn't even go to a top 10 school but somehow he can write his own ticket but instead prefers to be a carpenter. Yea, sure, whatever you say 'mouse.

Before rejecting my argument, perhaps you should check into the prestige a degree from the University of Wisconsin-Madison confers upon the holder, REGARDLESS of the type of degree.
It is one of the most honored degrees in the Fortune 500 and across boardrooms world-wide.
A degree from the UW signifies that person made it through 4 or 5 years of rigorous course work - even in humanities or "soft" BA majors - and has demonstrated the ability to learn and stick with long-term commitments with some high degree of difficulty.

Since most jobs that require a college degree do not actually end up relying on the degree itself as training - other than basic conceptual understanding and preparation TO LEARN the duties of the job they will be assuming - it doesn't really matter to employers what degree the UW issued, the fact an applicant has one FROM the UW-Madison is enough to promote them to the top of the list of candidates for hire.

Fortune 500 CEOs [usnews.com]
UW-Madison is FOURTH in rank, of ALL universities, for producing Fortune 500 CEOs.

U.S. Lawmakers
UW-Madison ranks TIED for FIFTH [usnews.com], with Georgetown, Georgia, & Florida in the production of legislators in the U.S.

3rd in currently serving Peace Corps volunteers. [wisc.edu]

Ranked #1 [wisc.edu]for online Engineering Grad programs.

The University of Wisconsin-Madison was ranked 19th among world universities [wisc.edu] in an annual survey done by Shanghai’s Jiao Tong University.
UW-Madison is one of only six American public universities to measure among the top 20 and the highest in the Big Ten. The University of Michigan at Ann Arbor ranked 22nd.
UW-Madison had been ranked 17th for the past two years.

The University of Wisconsin-Madison ranked 13th [wisc.edu] among public institutions in rankings released today (Tuesday, Aug. 17) in the U.S. News & World Report's 2011 Edition of America's Best Colleges.

The UW ranks third [wisc.edu]among producers of mid-length studies abroad and sixth among producers of long-term studies abroad (one year or more).

Law and Business schools rank among the tops in the nation. [wisc.edu]

It may not be the absolute best university on Earth, but it comes damn close and a UW degree opens doors, no matter where you go, globally.

Any questions?

Quote from Anonymouse : Before rejecting my argument, perhaps you should check into the prestige a degree from the University of Wisconsin-Madison confers upon the holder, REGARDLESS of the type of degree. It is one of the most honored degrees in the Fortune 500 and across boardrooms world-wide. A degree from the UW signifies that person made it through 4 or 5 years of rigorous course work - even in humanities or "soft" BA majors - and has demonstrated the ability to learn and stick with long-term commitments with some high degree of difficulty. Since most jobs that require a college degree do not actually end up relying on the degree itself as training - other than basic conceptual understanding and preparation TO LEARN the duties of the job they will be assuming - it doesn't really matter to employers what degree the UW issued, the fact an applicant has one FROM the UW-Madison is enough to promote them to the top of the list of candidates for hire. Fortune 500 CEOs [usnews.com] UW-Madison is FOURTH in rank, of ALL universities, for producing Fortune 500 CEOs. U.S. Lawmakers UW-Madison ranks TIED for FIFTH [usnews.com], with Georgetown, Georgia, & Florida in the production of legislators in the U.S. 3rd in currently serving Peace Corps volunteers. [wisc.edu] Ranked #1 [wisc.edu]for online Engineering Grad programs. The University of Wisconsin-Madison was ranked 19th among world universities [wisc.edu] in an annual survey done by Shanghai’s Jiao Tong University. UW-Madison is one of only six American public universities to measure among the top 20 and the highest in the Big Ten. The University of Michigan at Ann Arbor ranked 22nd. UW-Madison had been ranked 17th for the past two years. The University of Wisconsin-Madison ranked 13th [wisc.edu] among public institutions in rankings released today (Tuesday, Aug. 17) in the U.S. News & World Report's 2011 Edition of America's Best Colleges. The UW ranks third [wisc.edu]among producers of mid-length studies abroad and sixth among producers of long-term studies abroad (one year or more). Law and Business schools rank among the tops in the nation. [wisc.edu] It may not be the absolute best university on Earth, but it comes damn close and a UW degree opens doors, no matter where you go, globally. Any questions?

Believe what you want but they are not even in the top 10 of journalism schools. I graduated from one of the country's top veterinary medicine schools and I am currently under-employed. Your confidence in your nephew is admirable but don't for a second pretend that just because he went to a good school means that he can get a job easily in today's environment, especially when considering the stats for journalism degrees DJPlayer posted.

Quote from darkfrog : Believe what you want but they are not even in the top 10 of journalism schools. I graduated from one of the country's top veterinary medicine schools and I am currently under-employed. Your confidence in your nephew is admirable but don't for a second pretend that just because he went to a good school means that he can get a job easily in today's environment, especially when considering the stats for journalism degrees DJPlayer posted.

Coulda fooled me.

Top 10 Journalism Schools [world-newspapers.com]

1. Columbia University, Graduate School of Journalism
2. New York University, Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute
3. Northwestern University, Medill School of Journalism
4. Stanford University, Department of Communication
5. Syracuse University, Newhouse School of Public Communication
6. UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism
7. University of Maryland, Philip Merrill College of Journalism
8. University of Missouri-Columbia, Missouri School of Journalism
9. University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, School of Journalism and Mass Communication
10. University of Wisconsin - Madison, School of Journalism and Mass Communication
    
    Perhaps you should have raised you sights a little higher and attended the TIED FOR FIFTH, (with OSU & U-Penn) [dvm360.com], best Veterinary College in the country - the University of Wisconsin Madison's School of Veterinary Medicine.
    
    Maybe you wouldn't be "under-employed".
    
    Keep digging though, this is starting to be really enjoyable.

Quote from Anonymouse : Coulda fooled me. Top 10 Journalism Schools [world-newspapers.com] Columbia University, Graduate School of Journalism New York University, Arthur L. Carter Journalism Institute Northwestern University, Medill School of Journalism Stanford University, Department of Communication Syracuse University, Newhouse School of Public Communication UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism University of Maryland, Philip Merrill College of Journalism University of Missouri-Columbia, Missouri School of Journalism University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, School of Journalism and Mass Communication University of Wisconsin - Madison, School of Journalism and Mass Communication

When I posted, I looked at multiple lists, none of which listed U of W-M.
http://education-portal.com/top_1...hools.html
http://www.mediabistro.com/10000w...ols_b11575
http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Artic...10377.aspx
http://blog.journalistics.com/200...ournalism/

Those were only on the first page of google and I did not go out of my way to bias the search by looking specifically for Wisconsin. Considering that most of these lists had many schools in common and none of them listed U of W except as honorable mention, I will stand by my comment, in spite of your ability to find a list that puts them at #10.

Quote from darkfrog : When I posted, I looked at multiple lists, none of which listed U of W-M. http://education-portal.com/top_1...hools.html http://www.mediabistro.com/10000w...ols_b11575 http://www.prdaily.com/Main/Artic...10377.aspx http://blog.journalistics.com/200...ournalism/ Those were only on the first page of google and I did not go out of my way to bias the search by looking specifically for Wisconsin. Considering that most of these lists had many schools in common and none of them listed U of W except as honorable mention, I will stand by my comment, in spite of your ability to find a list that puts them at #10.

10th - honorable mention -wotevah.
All that is relevant is your persistent claims that the UW-Madison is NOT a fast track to a good job, has been thoroughly debunked.
If you can't use google as well as I do, that isn't my fault.
Some of us are better equipped by education at one of the finer universities in the world to do a little better than others of us.

FYI, google wasn't necessarily where I got my information, just so ya know.

My wife ran a 900 student dorm - Chadbourne Hall - at the UW for a decade.
Each year she hired anywhere from 14 to 28 students for work-study.
It was a regular occurrence that those work-study students, upon receiving their degree, would apply for jobs and land them all over the country - WITHOUT so much as an interview.
The degree from the UW-Madison was all it took to be offered the job - GOOD jobs - and the employer didn't even care what the degree was in.

Short but curiously relevant story.
When my wife and I vacationed in Washington D.C. in the summer of 2006, we were standing in the Lincoln Memorial at midnight on a pleasant midsummer's eve.
My wife nudged me and whispered, "I know that voice."
Up the stairs was climbing a couple, and the young lady was one of those work-study students my wife had employed for 3 years.
She landed a job at a prestigious lobbying firm in D.C. - WITHOUT an interview - after she graduated.
I have no idea if Darth Cheney being a UW-Madison alum had any bearing on that - Bush 43 was in office at the time - but I'm sure it didn't hurt.
My point is, that's how filled with UW-Madison grads the world is - they are so commonplace in the halls of power and influence that even at midnight in a major city we bumped into one.

Quote from Anonymouse : 10th - honorable mention -wotevah. All that is relevant is your persistent claims that the UW-Madison is NOT a fast track to a good job, has been thoroughly debunked.

Really? Debunked? How is your link a demonstration that my claim is debunked? Now you are changing my claim from UW-M not being a guaranteed job in journalism to merely being a fast-track to a good job. Hmm.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Movi..._goalposts

Quote from darkfrog : Really? Debunked? How is your link a demonstration that my claim is debunked? Now you are changing my claim from UW-M not being a guaranteed job in journalism to merely being a fast-track to a good job. Hmm. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Movi..._goalposts

In our last survey of recent undergraduate degree recipients, we found the following: [wisc.edu]

62% found a job within three months of graduation
89% were employed within six months
87% were working in a job directly related to their degree
9.6% were attending graduate or law school

Of those surveyed, two-thirds said they were “Very� or “Moderately� satisfied with their first job, and only half remained in the Midwest, specifically in Wisconsin, Illinois or Minnesota. Our graduates were working at a wide range of jobs, including:

Advertising agency 19.5%
Daily newspaper 10.5%
Internet media 8.8%
Radio station 7.7%
Non-media company 7.0%
Corporate Communications 7.0%
TV station 6.3%
PR agency 4.9%

Our graduates earn a range of salaries (all figures are average annual):

Advertising agency $21,600
Non-media company $22,000
Newspaper $25,200
Internet media $20,800
TV station $16,300
PR agency $20,800
Corporate Communications $24,400
Radio station $16,200

What do you want?
100% guarantees?
NO degree gives one of those out with it.
89% get a job within 6 months and 87% are directly employed in their degree field.
How much closer would one have to get to satisfy your incessant need to prove me wrong - in a profession that is seeing it's job openings in severe decline?
I'd say 89% is about as close to a guarantee as ANY journalism student can get these days, and that is a DIRECT result of that piece of paper with the UW-Madison stamp on it, not because the field is starving for workers.
I'd hazard a guess that the other 13% NOT working in a directly related field do so by choice, like my nephew made.
After seeing the average salaries, I can see why.

Keep digging darkfrog, the hole is almost deep enough.

Quote from Anonymouse : [B][COLOR="Green"] What do you want? 100% guarantees? NO degree gives one of those out with it. 89% get a job within 6 months and 87% are directly employed in their degree field. How much closer would one have to get to satisfy your incessant need to prove me wrong - in a profession that is seeing it's job openings in severe decline? I'd say 89% is about as close to a guarantee as ANY journalism student can get these days, and that is a DIRECT result of that piece of paper with the UW-Madison stamp on it, not because the field is starving for workers. I'd hazard a guess that the other 13% NOT working in a directly related field do so by choice, like my nephew made. After seeing the average salaries, I can see why. Keep digging darkfrog, the hole is almost deep enough.

What do I want? YOU are the one that brought up "guarantee hire at any place he wants to work"

AFAIK, that survey was done more than 3 years ago, prior to the statistics given by the NACE in the link that DJplayer posted, where journalism grads were the hardest hit. I'm not interested in nitpicking over details. You made an exceptionally broad claim and asked why he quoted you in the post showing that hiring in the field of journalism is on the decline. I posted that I suspected it was because of your overly broad claim. Nothing you have posted has demonstrated that your post was anything but hyperbole which you seem reluctant to admit.

Quote : What do you want? 100% guarantees?

I never asked you to make such a broad unsupportable claim because you 'guess' the other 11% aren't working in the field by choice. And you say I'm digging holes...

We need more manufacturing jobs because I hate having to spend so much time and effort to buy made in USA products.

Quote from zzyzzx : We need more manufacturing jobs because I hate having to spend so much time and effort to buy made in USA products.

Amen brother!!

Manufacturing jobs and the wealth of a country are quite connected, its a vicious cycle of good if its done right. People work more, they make more money, if they make more money, they buy more stuff. Which then leads to increased production which hires even more people.

We can either have $10 toasters, or we can have $50 jobs. You cant have both! There have been some good times in the last 20-30 years where there was still a lot of manufacturing here, while at the same time plenty of cheap imports. But if people only want the cheap imports, nobody is going to make the good stuff which provides jobs here in the US.

Quote from zzyzzx : We need more manufacturing jobs because I hate having to spend so much time and effort to buy made in USA products.

Yup.

Too bad the stock market will probably severely punish companies that reduce their profits by taking risks on moving production facilities here. Not to mention changing the price views of the population Might be tough, but a good quality product made here that can be sold for a few bucks more than the cheap imports, can be a viable long-term solution.