Public pension plan files for bankruptcy

I actually totally agree with this. If it's possible I think the people who were promised pensions should get them. Take my mom for example. She's a teacher and legitimately works 10 months a year. She's been teaching for nearly 30-35 years and on top of her Bachelors has a couple years "interning" (can't remember the actual name for it) before she could teach on her own and get an actual salary. Later on she got a masters, and has to get continued education every year. All those things were out of her pocket. She doesn't make all that much $$, and could have likely made a lot more $$ if she became an executive assistant for example but stayed in teaching because she knew that while the salary during her working years weren't stellar she'd be taken care of nicely once she retired. Not to mention she liked the job as well.

It's not fair to all of a sudden and say "sorry, you're getting 1/2 pension benefits because we ran out of cash". Out here in CA the teachers pension plan is separate from other gov't workers so while she looks ok non-teachers may not be. What they need to do is create a new bracket of employees that no longer get pensions, or get a reduced pension however with pay that would be closer to fair market value. The problem is the teachers unions 9and others) stall those discussions whenever they're raised because it's somehow unfair to new teachers. Either you start solving the problem or you're left with a considerably larger one later on. As a teacher, my Mom doesn't have a say whether she's union or not, and while she has a vote in the leadership of the union and their direction she's only one vote. She's actually all for the different bracket of employees that maybe get paid more $$ in salary and have a 401k while not having a pension plan but it's the majority of them that are against it.

And to what Elmer said, even though my Mom contributed to SS more than 40 quarters, and never married after her and my Dad split while she is eligible for SS every dollar she would get paid is deducted from her pension plan. It's not like she gets both SS and her pension plan. Personally I find that to be BS when the person that worked 40 quarters gets benefits on top of their 401k while she doesn't but whatever...

Hopefully they can fix the problem before they have no other choice but to abandon it but who knows. With everyone just saying what people want to hear so they can get elected until it gets bad enough I don't see much actually changing.

If im not mistaken california allows people not to join the union, but she has to pay the union fees, because even if you dont join the union you are still benefitting from wage increases that it fought for in the past.

In St. Paul, MN, property owners will be getting screwed.
http://www.realclearmarkets.com/a...99661.html

Exactly. When people say, "Government union workers were promised X and they shouldn't have the rug pulled out from under their feet" seem to forget that the money in most cases just isn't there. For example, NYC spends more on pensions for retirees than it does on the NYPD, FDNY, and sanitation budgets combined. This just isn't sustainable. Either we can mortgage our futures by paying this "privileged class" their "benefits," by cutting all other programs to the bone or by massively raising taxes, or we can force them to take a haircut. You can guess what side I'm on.

And when you consider that these contracts were not even negotiated in good faith, it becomes that much easier to justify.

There is no side. They have contracts, you don't.

There is no side. They have contracts, you don't.

GM bondholders had contracts
so did CDS and CDO bondholders
so did some non union pension holders were pensions were transferred to
The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp, which has a max payout, regardless of how big a pension it receives is
So did PERSONAL account holders at MF Global
etc

If a contract is written very poorly and had very poor foresight, who should take the fall when such terms can't be met?


Also, having a contract could mean something and could mean squat.

Governor Moonbeam is going back to the trough in California.


Gov. Brown Asks Voters to Increase Taxes 'Temporarily' [patch.com]

The deficit has doubled in less than 4 months. So lets raise our already high taxes. Maybe we can chase even more businesses and high income earners out of the state.

Ok nobama, where will/should the funding come from for all the shortfalls in pensions?

It's not the Unions fault, it's not the legislators fault, it's not the companies fault, etc..

Who should foot the bill?

Ok nobama, where will/should the funding come from for all the shortfalls in pensions?

It's not the Unions fault, it's not the legislators fault, it's not the companies fault, etc..

Who should foot the bill?

I have no answer for "all the shortfalls in pensions", but in the example that I provided http://slickdeals.net/forums/show...stcount=37, the pension is mandated by state law, not by union contract or other agreements.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/defaul...cite=41.26
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/defaul...te=415-104
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/defaul...te=415-105

The state taxpayers are ultimately going to foot the bill, should the pension fund go broke.

Fortunately for the pension system in WA, the funds have been generally well managed through investments, etc. and at this point in time are in little danger. The danger to the fund is that the state legislators periodically want to try to borrow or "raid" those funds for the purposes of use elsewhere, which then could lead to significant problems later IMHO.

The same thing exists in social security, it's the fed gov's piggy bank to raid and borrow from.

Some Unions got legislators to pass such pensions into law, and some did not. Is there really a difference if the gov raises taxes to fund pensions of the gov bails out a pension plan(s)?

Does getting bills passed on pensions make them more "worthy" of funding underfunded plans? We can find plenty of stupid bills that are counter productive to society/the economy.