Public pension plan files for bankruptcy

Quote from hsjpatman : I think they should get their pensions but it should be taken from the higher paid politicians salaries. Then they should get rid of pensions entirely. It's farked up that hard working taxpayers that have jobs with no pensions should be paying for government employees pensions.

What's farked up is that hard working taxpayers have jobs with no pensions at all.
Only in America, as Larry the Cable Guy would say.
The rest of the civilized world doesn't operate that way.

California may have pension liabilities of 5.5 times the state's annual tax revenue within two years.

http://www.milkeninstitute.org/pd...tfalls.pdf

And yet the Democrats still think they can tax their way out of the hole they dug with the unions that bought them......

Quote from mohater : GM bondholders had contracts so did CDS and CDO bondholders

Bonds are investments with risks involved. Pensions are employee benefits that are supposed to have no risk. It would be like if you thought you had health insurance and then were told you had to pay 100% of your surgery because the hospital screwed up.

Quote from ASG : Bonds are investments with risks involved. Pensions are employee benefits that are supposed to have no risk. It would be like if you thought you had health insurance and then were told you had to pay 100% of your surgery because the hospital screwed up.

Not sure you understand what he was saying. The union pension funds held the bonds just like every other bond holder. But they received preferential treatment over other bond holders.

Quote from Elmer : California may have pension liabilities of 5.5 times the state's annual tax revenue within two years. http://www.milkeninstitute.org/pd...tfalls.pdf And yet the Democrats still think they can tax their way out of the hole they dug with the unions that bought them......

Pretty easy to see the pension train wreck coming. Just like it was with the housing market. Question is how to bet against it and make some money from this one.

Quote from ASG : Bonds are investments with risks involved. Pensions are employee benefits that are supposed to have no risk. It would be like if you thought you had health insurance and then were told you had to pay 100% of your surgery because the hospital screwed up.

Pensions make investments with the money, those investments also have risks (pension managers buy bonds, stocks, t-bills, etc.). Nothing is ever without risk.

The terms of the contracts in the items I mentioned were all violated. The risk assumed the contract would be followed.

Health insurance is also a bad example. Health insurance is a "oh sh*t" policy to make sure you're covered when you need something. It's a defined benefit, but if you never use it, no payment is ever made on your behalf. A pension is a DEFINED benefit that says "you WILL get $x" and some transfer to a spouse/children. Unless all the people who can collect die, money will be paid out and that's the problem. There will never be enough money to cover the obligation (the projections keep going up and up). Health insurance companies can drive up premiums to cover increases in projections, pension managers can't

Quote from ASG : Bonds are investments with risks involved. Pensions are employee benefits that are supposed to have no risk. It would be like if you thought you had health insurance and then were told you had to pay 100% of your surgery because the hospital screwed up.

No, they aren't "supposed to have no risk." The union members only thought that because they (wrongly) assumes a state could never fail. A bunch of our states are on their way to failure.

A better analogy would be your health insurance company going bankrupt, leaving you with the bill, because you had a "union" that "negotiated" premiums that didn't come close to paying for the benefits.

Quote from Anonymouse : What's farked up is that hard working taxpayers have jobs with no pensions at all. Only in America, as Larry the Cable Guy would say. The rest of the civilized world doesn't operate that way.

What's farked up is that unions have strong armed businesses into "offering" pensions they don't want to give.
I can't stand the unions.
Every time I see people picketing, I want to yell at them and tell them that if they don't like their job/pay/benefits, then they should go find another job that offers them the pay/benefits they desire.
The idea of someone protesting/coercing a company, into paying them what they want, is just ridiculous.
If I did that, I'd be fired in a split second and the media wouldn't be there to cover the story.

Quote from hsjpatman : What's farked up is that unions have strong armed businesses into "offering" pensions they don't want to give. I can't stand the unions. Every time I see people picketing, I want to yell at them and tell them that if they don't like their job/pay/benefits, then they should go find another job that offers them the pay/benefits they desire. The idea of someone protesting/coercing a company, into paying them what they want, is just ridiculous. If I did that, I'd be fired in a split second and the media wouldn't be there to cover the story.

I understand your point but why can't they strike as long as they do not break any laws?

Quote from TRNT : I understand your point but why can't they strike as long as they do not break any laws?

I never said they can't.
I just believe that doing so is coercive, and that the majority of workers in the country would be fired instantly if they walked out on their job, even more so if they stood out front protesting.
It's shameful IMO.
Standing out front a place and complaining because they wont pay you what you want.
Trying to hurt their business so that they will give you what you want, even though it's against their will.

Quote from hsjpatman : I never said they can't. I just believe that doing so is coercive, and that the majority of workers in the country would be fired instantly if they walked out on their job, even more so if they stood out front protesting. It's shameful IMO. Standing out front a place and complaining because they wont pay you what you want. Trying to hurt their business so that they will give you what you want, even though it's against their will.

What? They do things against their will? How is this achieved ? By terrorism or extortion on the part of the workers? Exactly how are they forced?

And similarly, are workers accepting their compensation "against their will" too?

Quote from Anonymouse : What's farked up is that hard working taxpayers have jobs with no pensions at all. Only in America, as Larry the Cable Guy would say. The rest of the civilized world doesn't operate that way.

Yeah and it's working wonders over in Greece, Italy and Spain...

Quote from TRNT : What? They do things against their will? How is this achieved ? By terrorism or extortion on the part of the workers? Exactly how are they forced? And similarly, are workers accepting their compensation "against their will" too?

You can't be serious with these questions, are you?

Quote from hsjpatman : You can't be serious with these questions, are you?

Well, I was gonna make the same comment about your post but then I decided agiant it mainly because I thought it was a rude thing to say.