Was SS implemented only due to a failure of capitalism?

IOW: Did capitalism cause the Great Depression?

At the risk of taking away from Julia's thread, I created this one.

Quote from 124nic8 : Because a major collapse of the US economy does not represent a failure of capitalism?

No, it doesn't.

Quote : And since the US economy is probably the best known example of capitalism in the world, I find it hard to believe that you're contesting that it is an example of capitalism.

Best known example doesn't mean it was a pure capitalistic economy, or that the collapse was due to capitalistic politicies. This goes back to the whole unsupported inflamatory "beliefs" thing.

Quote : Where did I misrepresent your views?

By asking that crap question. Protip, just because you put a question mark doesn't make your assertions valid.

Quote : Are you denying that your "laugh" post added nothing meaningful to the discussion and was only a thinly veiled insult?

Are you denying that your post labeling SS was "implemented only due to a failure of capitalism" is an unsupported inflammatory "belief" ?

Quote : It would at least have been somewhat productive to detail your disagreement which you still have not clarified.

As it would have been productive to not post unsupported inflamatory "beliefs"

But here ya go: http://mises.org/daily/2845

http://www.freedomworks.org/files...ession.pdf

Though I'm sure you'll hand wave.

WTF, no poll? I'd vote NO. It was implemented because of too many people not putting away enough $$ to take care of themselves later in life. Either they put something like SS in place or we'd just get to hear all the sob stories about all the old people that can't take care of themselves because they spent all their $$ on non-essential items when they were younger and demand the gov't step in and help them.

I consider it like flood insurance. One way or another the gov't is gonna step in and foot the rebuilding bill so may as well get something from those who will end up using it up front, even if it's not enough to cover the actual spend.

Quote from paperboy05 : IOW: Did capitalism cause the Great Depression? At the risk of taking away from Julia's thread, I created this one. No, it doesn't.

So either your contention is that the Great Depression was not a failure or the US economy did not represent capitalism.

Both of these are obviously false as the US economy was one of the most capitalistic in the world and the GD was a major failure.

Quote : Best known example doesn't mean it was a pure capitalistic economy, or that the collapse was due to capitalistic politicies. This goes back to the whole unsupported inflamatory "beliefs" thing.

This is a disingenous arguement cause there are no "pure capitalistic economies" and never will be.

By this logic capitalism has never failed cause it has never been purely implemented.

Quote : By asking that crap question. Protip, just because you put a question mark doesn't make your assertions valid.

Oxymoron. A question is not an assertion. It may contain an invalid premise, but that does not make a question into a strawman.

Quote : Are you denying that your post labeling SS was "implemented only due to a failure of capitalism" is an unsupported inflammatory "belief" ?

Absolutely. W/o the failure of the GD, SS would not have happened.

Quote : As it would have been productive to not post unsupported inflamatory "beliefs"

Most people would not see "failure of capitalism" to be inflamatory nor that the GD represents its failure as being out of the mainstream.

It is your Austrian views which are out of the mainstream. One reason Libertarians have little to no power in this country.




But here ya go: http://mises.org/daily/2845

http://www.freedomworks.org/files...ession.pdf

Though I'm sure you'll hand wave.[/QUOTE]

Quote from LivninSC : WTF, no poll?

Fair enough

Damn, too late

Quote from paperboy05 : Fair enough Damn, too late

It's a'ight

Quote from 124nic8 : So either your contention is that the Great Depression was not a failure or the US economy did not represent capitalism.

I think it's pretty easy to see what my contention was.

Quote : Both of these are obviously false as the US economy was one of the most capitalistic in the world and the GD was a major failure.

Wrong, just because it was the most capitalistic compared to other countries, doesn't mean it was a full capitalistic economy, or that capitalism is the sole blame.

Quote : This is a disingenous arguement cause there are no "pure capitalistic economies" and never will be.

And yet you feel confident enough to claim the "only" reason SS was implemented was a failure in capitalism.

Quote : By this logic capitalism has never failed cause it has never been purely implemented.

In terms of what you initially claimed, yes.

Quote : Oxymoron. A question is not an assertion. It may contain an invalid premise, but that does not make a question into a strawman.

So when your argument is crap, do you usually just stick to punching kids or do you kick dogs too?

Quote : Absolutely. W/o the failure of the GD, SS would not have happened.

Thanks for providing an opinion that is entirely unrelated to your claim.

Quote : Most people would not see "failure of capitalism" to be inflamatory nor that the GD represents its failure as being out of the mainstream.

I disagree. In terms of posting unsupported beliefs, such as capitalism being the only reason SS was implemented, I would say that is quite inflammatory.

Quote from paperboy05 : I think it's pretty easy to see what my contention was. Wrong, just because it was the most capitalistic compared to other countries, doesn't mean it was a full capitalistic economy, or that capitalism is the sole blame.

You're picking nits. The US economy represents a practical implementation of capitalism; even more so 70 years ago before SS and Medicare.

Quote : And yet you feel confident enough to claim the "only" reason SS was implemented was a failure in capitalism.

Because the US economy was/is based on capitalism.

Quote : So when your argument is crap, do you usually just stick to punching kids or do you kick dogs too?

I wouldn't know cause my argument is never "crap."

Quote : Thanks for providing an opinion that is entirely unrelated to your claim.

It is wholely related to my claim. Despite your nit-picking one of most capitalist economies in the world does represent capitalism.

Quote : I disagree. In terms of posting unsupported beliefs, such as capitalism being the only reason SS was implemented, I would say that is quite inflammatory.

You're misstating. It was the failure of the US capitalist economy which was the reason SS was implemented. An economy does not have to purely capitalist to be considered capitalism.

Quote from 124nic8 : You're picking nits. The US economy represents a practical implementation of capitalism; even more so 70 years ago before SS and Medicare.

The Fed was created in '13, that takes away any probability for placing the blame solely on capitalism.

Quote : Because the US economy was/is based on capitalism.

So, no matter what, capitalism is to blame then, huh?

Quote : I wouldn't know cause my argument is never "crap."

So do you ever come up for air when you head is hidden in the ground?

Quote : It is wholely related to my claim. Despite your nit-picking one of most capitalist economies in the world does represent capitalism.

Again, you're changing your argument. First it's capitalism is the sole cause for SS. Then it's SS was implemented because of the GD. Now it's since the US was a capitalistic based economy, they are representative of capitalism. So is that the line of logic you are going?

US is capitalistic based. -> US enters Great Depression -> SS is created -> Ergo capitalism is the sole blame.

Quote : You're misstating. It was the failure of the US capitalist economy which was the reason SS was implemented. An economy does not have to purely capitalist to be considered capitalism.

I'm not misstating anything. I'm reiterating exactly what you posted. If I'm misstating it's because you mis-posted.

You're trying to throw out correlation/causation opinions with no substantiation.

Yes. Had there been no collapse, there would have been no impetus.

Quote from vaultaddict : Yes. Had there been no collapse, there would have been no impetus.

And that doesn't prove that the failure was due to capitalism or some other economic force.

Quote from paperboy05 : And that doesn't prove that the failure was due to capitalism or some other economic force.

And your contention that the US economy is not "pure capitalism" does not prove it is not a form of capitalism which failed when it collapsed during the Great Depression.

And that claim is irrelevant, cause "pure capitalism" will never exist cause the government will always intervene in the economy to some degree as long as there is government.

Quote from 124nic8 : You're misstating. It was the failure of the US capitalist economy which was the reason SS was implemented. An economy does not have to purely capitalist to be considered capitalism.

Quote : The economy of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) was based on a system of state ownership of the means of production, collective farming, industrial manufacturing and centralized administrative planning. The economy was characterised by state control of investment, public ownership of industrial assets, and during the last 20 years of its existence, pervasive corruption and socioeconomic stagnation.

yet Social Security was introduced in 1922, same year as the creation of the USSR, which was a communist country. Yet the United States didn't introduce SS until 1935.

Quote from paperboy05 : And that doesn't prove that the failure was due to capitalism or some other economic force.

the failure was of poorly regulated capitalism, obviously

Quote from 124nic8 : And your contention that the US economy is not "pure capitalism" does not prove it is not a form of capitalism which failed when it collapsed during the Great Depression.

Just because the economy failed, doesn't mean it was a failure due to capitalism as you keep claiming. I've provided support; all you've provided is unsupported inflamatory "beliefs"