Spending, Taxes, And Deficits Are All Lower Today Than When Obama Took Office

Quote from 124nic8 : and noticed that the OP did look at GDP. So was that an oversight?

and notice that I'm not the OP and did not look at GDP.

So was that an oversight?

Quote from DJPlayer : and notice that I'm not the OP and did not look at GDP. So was that an oversight?

I was addressing Deus' post not yours.

The only people who might think the OP is a lie based on your post are those who don't recognize that you didn't consider GDP and the OP did.

That's totally misleading. Would make a great political statement in fact.

If Bush gets credit for TARP, shouldn't he also get credit for the the 100 billionish that was paid back?

If TARP is all Bush, the money paid back is also all Bush's, which puts in a 200 billion swing just in the 2010 numbers they are distoring... i mean using.

After that, it just gets worse.

Quote from 124nic8 : You can't know the debt/GDP into the indefinite future because you can't know the state of economy which produces the GDP, so it's a ridiculous and unanswerable question, which "Timmy" confirmed.

True, however when 60% of the debt goes to interest and interests rates are manipulated/held down to 0% and not allowed to rise, then all there is left is printing more....which also creates more debt-based interest due to the fact that the aggregate is expanding. And, as that continues logarithmically, you soon realize that debt/GDP meaningless in describing a financial state of any entity no matter if growth goes parabolic to try to catch it.

And if rates do rise, then the process above is like going from a match under the economy to a flame thrower.

So keep arguing and pointing fingers at each other like little kids on a playground. Keep lambasting both sides of the isle to make yourself feel better, it don't mean jack at the end of the day because the inmates run the penitentiary. Spending has to continue, budgets will never be balanced and taxes will increase until the music finally stops. And that's when the market completely dumps the $US due to trust/confidence as well as the day we have a debt auction and no one shows up with the fiat to float us for a few more weeks, days, hours.

America is, has always been and always will be a last minute society. We want the future yesterday. This time is no different except for the fact that Tim, Ben and Barry cannot buy more time, only press CNTRL+P at the last minute...which they will do, as much as they have to in their own self-interests. They don't give a rotent's anus about the country.

Quote from barnz008 : True, however when 60% of the debt goes to interest and interests rates are manipulated/held down to 0% and not allowed to rise, then all there is left is printing more....which also creates more debt-based interest due to the fact that the aggregate is expanding. And, as that continues logarithmically, you soon realize that debt/GDP meaningless in describing a financial state of any entity no matter if growth goes parabolic to try to catch it. And if rates do rise, then the process above is like going from a match under the economy to a flame thrower. So keep arguing and pointing fingers at each other like little kids on a playground. Keep lambasting both sides of the isle to make yourself feel better, it don't mean jack at the end of the day because the inmates run the penitentiary. Spending has to continue, budgets will never be balanced and taxes will increase until the music finally stops. And that's when the market completely dumps the $US due to trust/confidence as well as the day we have a debt auction and no one shows up with the fiat to float us for a few more weeks, days, hours. America is, has always been and always will be a last minute society. We want the future yesterday. This time is no different except for the fact that Tim, Ben and Barry cannot buy more time, only press CNTRL+P at the last minute...which they will do, as much as they have to in their own self-interests. They don't give a rotent's anus about the country.

Or else they know that the better option is to buy time rather than suffer a huge implosion immediately.

Quote from OhNoItsDEVO : Yea there should be laws against having that much shit in one place.

Quote from TRNT : I usually stay away from exotic smileys. I almost never use them to make a debate point. But your response deserves one. So here it is:

It's only fitting that their convention should be piling that stink up in the "Disenfranchisement State" of Florida.

Quote from loop610bob : wtf are you smoking man. I expect this kind of absurdity from faux moderates on this board but you're not usually that guy.

Had a busy weekend.

Ok first. I am not defending the republicans, in fact, I think things would be a lot worse if they were in charge during these past 4 years. Everything I have seen from the Republicans would sink the economy and cause a lot of misery.

I just don't believe Obama deserves an atta-boy for his performance (in regards to the economy).

Quote from 808Lurker : Had a busy weekend. Ok first. I am not defending the republicans, in fact, I think things would be a lot worse if they were in charge during these past 4 years. Everything I have seen from the Republicans would sink the economy and cause a lot of misery. I just don't believe Obama deserves an atta-boy for his performance (in regards to the economy).

What should Obama have done differently?

Allow the powerful private interests full control over when the economy recovers (no stimulus)?

Quote from 124nic8 : You really think it would be better to cut spending and risk a double dip and deflationary spiral ala 1937?

Two years ago I would say no, now I have to say yes.

Stimulus spending if done right can could have done wonders and could have lasting benefits to our country. Take for example the Hoover damn, that is a great example of stimulus, it provided a lot of jobs and a lasting benefit to our country. It still provides power and jobs to this day.

I can't find many thing lasting benefits from this round of stimulus. Sure we kept a bunch of people from losing jobs and kept the economy limping along at the cost of a couple trillion dollars.

I don't see any lasting benefit to our country for all that money spent. Think if the money was spent on revamping our power grid, or built nuclear reactors or even put in hydrogen fuel pumps in 1/2 the existing gas stations and massive incentives to produce hydrogen fuel cell cars. Heck even subsidizing ways to cleanly utilize natural gas and coal would have worked.

In the end my order would be...

well spent stimulus > deflationary spiral > poorly spent stimulus

Quote from 124nic8 : What should Obama have done differently? Allow the powerful private interests full control over when the economy recovers (no stimulus)?

1) What Obama should have done is to focus on the future. Pick a plan like energy independence or bringing manufacturing or something then dump the stimulus into that. If you are going to mortgage the future, might as well do something the has a lasting benefit.

2) Instead of fannie/freddie absorbing all those toxic assests and shifting the burdens to the country at a 1:1 rate. He should have made the banks take a haircut on them. Swap 10 billion of toxic assest to fannie/freddie for 5 billion. Then the government could take those toxic assests and try to salvage the ones they could, even offering principal reductions.

3) Instead of providing incentives to banks to make loans during the credit crunch, which they never did and pocketted them instead. Set up a short-term US bank to provide business-only loans for the duration of the crunch.

4) Letting the worst of those private interests that got into the huge messes go under instead of propping them up.

Quote from 808Lurker : Stimulus spending if done right can could have done wonders and could have lasting benefits to our country. Take for example the Hoover damn, that is a great example of stimulus, it provided a lot of jobs and a lasting benefit to our country. It still provides power and jobs to this day. I can't find many thing lasting benefits from this round of stimulus. Sure we kept a bunch of people from losing jobs and kept the economy limping along at the cost of a couple trillion dollars. I don't see any lasting benefit to our country for all that money spent. Think if the money was spent on revamping our power grid, or built nuclear reactors or even put in hydrogen fuel pumps in 1/2 the existing gas stations and massive incentives to produce hydrogen fuel cell cars. Heck even subsidizing ways to cleanly utilize natural gas and coal would have worked.

Yes, I've said before that I wouldn't mind the stimulus as much if it wasn't used for so much stupid crap.

Quote from 808Lurker : I don't see any lasting benefit to our country for all that money spent. Think if the money was spent on revamping our power grid, or built nuclear reactors or even put in hydrogen fuel pumps in 1/2 the existing gas stations and massive incentives to produce hydrogen fuel cell cars. Heck even subsidizing ways to cleanly utilize natural gas and coal would have worked.

I was hired using stimulus money to modernize and protect IT infrastructure controlling and supporting wastewater in the 4th largest city in the US. My brother in law was hired a year ago out of college by a national engineering firm to exclusively handle Centerpoint grid upgrade projects in Texas. These were made possible by stimulus funds.

Our family will have dinner together. My family, my brother and sister in law, and my parents in law. We will sit and eat and listen to my father in law bitch for a hour about how the stimulus sucks. We nod and agree. Then they'll go home.

Then we sit and drink our wine and laugh at the sheer ignorance of a man that's sitting at a table with 4 adults, 2 of which have jobs because of the stimulus directly. You'd think sooner or later that he'd stop to ask where the money came from to hire either of us and you'd be wrong.

Stimulus money.

Rick Perry made a big old screamin deal about the fact he waddn't takin none of that there Obama monay. Damn communism monay. Course he took it. He took the education money then cut the state education budget by exactly the same amount. Perry complained about socialism, then pocketed the money sent to Texas by the rest of America for education.

And we're blaming Obama. I don't get it.

Quote from loop610bob : I was hired using stimulus money to modernize and protect IT infrastructure controlling and supporting wastewater in the 4th largest city in the US. My brother in law was hired a year ago out of college by a national engineering firm to exclusively handle Centerpoint grid upgrade projects in Texas. These were made possible by stimulus funds. Our family will have dinner together. My family, my brother and sister in law, and my parents in law. We will sit and eat and listen to my father in law bitch for a hour about how the stimulus sucks. We nod and agree. Then they'll go home. Then we sit and drink our wine and laugh at the sheer ignorance of a man that's sitting at a table with 4 adults, 2 of which have jobs because of the stimulus directly. You'd think sooner or later that he'd stop to ask where the money came from to hire either of us and you'd be wrong. Stimulus money. Rick Perry made a big old screamin deal about the fact he waddn't takin none of that there Obama monay. Damn communism monay. Course he took it. He took the education money then cut the state education budget by exactly the same amount. Perry complained about socialism, then pocketed the money sent to Texas by the rest of America for education. And we're blaming Obama. I don't get it.

the Texas ARRA Water project created approximately 1500 jobs. Here on Slickdeals we have 2 of those individuals. I think the better question is whether you were already employed by the state or contracted by the state prior to this ever going through.

oh btw your project a grant or a loan? They all seem to revolve around disadvantage counties..

I assume you're speaking of Houston.. but I just can't seem to find it.

http://www.twdb.texas.gov/newsmed...s/2009/10/