Round 11, Shoplift at Wally World and you DIE!

Quote from hsjpatman : As if they didn't choose to work for Walmart. They didn't have to apply at Walmart to begin with, they could have applied anywhere they wanted but they chose Walmart. If Walmart didn't give them a job they might not have a job at all. They are always free to seek out employment elsewhere.

poor people don't have choices. if they were out of work collecting welfare or unemployment how would you feel?

it's clear you never experienced a day of the struggle in your life.

Quote from thikthird : poor people don't have choices. if they were out of work collecting welfare or unemployment how would you feel?

Thank goodness Walmart will hire them.
And yes, even poor people have choices.
They may not like their choices but that's how the cookie crumbles.

Quote : it's clear you never experienced a day of the struggle in your life.

You have no clue what you are talking about and you are dead wrong on your assumption.

Quote from thikthird : poor people don't have choices. if they were out of work collecting welfare or unemployment how would you feel? it's clear you never experienced a day of the struggle in your life.

So we're all supposed to feel sorry for them and demand they get the same benefits/pay as those who stayed in school, studied, got good grades, and a decent/good paying job

A vast majority of people are in the situation they are in because of the choices they made (both those succeeding and struggling). As a result they truly only have themselves to thank. Sure it sucks but not everyone can be a billionaire... That said, I do commend them on working the jobs at Walmart. It may not pay a whole lot more than unemployment so I definitely respect them for working instead of sitting on their ass collecting unemployment.

Quote from hsjpatman : Thank goodness Walmart will hire them. And yes, even poor people have choices. They may not like their choices but that's how the cookie crumbles. You have no clue what you are talking about and you are dead wrong on your assumption.

...you say my assumptions are wrong but you prove yourself a liar with everything you've said.

Quote from LivninSC : So we're all supposed to feel sorry for them and demand they get the same benefits/pay as those who stayed in school, studied, got good grades, and a decent/good paying job A vast majority of people are in the situation they are in because of the choices they made (both those succeeding and struggling). As a result they truly only have themselves to thank. Sure it sucks but not everyone can be a billionaire... That said, I do commend them on working the jobs at Walmart. It may not pay a whole lot more than unemployment so I definitely respect them for working instead of sitting on their ass collecting unemployment.

nice false dichotomy.

no. a vast majority are in the situation they're in because they have no choice.

Quote from thikthird : ...you say my assumptions are wrong but you prove yourself a liar with everything you've said.

WTF are you talking about?
Nothing I have said is a lie.

Quote from LordOfChaos : Ah excellent, this is exactly what I am talking about! You can interpret statistics to prove your point. Add Sears stores to K-mart to drive down the ratio of deaths/store (again in a 12 year period) to help "prove" your point. While I would ask "Why add Sears stores? Do they sell beer and cigarettes and steak? Do the shop lifting incidents at Sears match that at K-mart or Wal Mart? Why are you adding Sears specialty stores? Is there a lot of shoplifters at the Sears furniture outlets?" If you just take the K-mart numbers and compare them to Wal Mart you get 0.0043 deaths per store vs. 0.0048. What those numbers mean? Bah I dont know. But they look close dont they? I bet I could massage my numbers even more if I used the number of customers that visit each store against the number of deaths

The reason I added Sears and K-Mart into one number is because they are held by one entity - Sears Holding Corp.
Wally World & Sam's Club are both owned by the Waltons.
Sears was bought out by K-Mart, after K-Mart came out of bankruptcy, so they are the same company operating under different name brands but still run from the same corporate offices, setting policy for both chains.
It is a fair comparison.

Quote from thikthird : nice false dichotomy. no. a vast majority are in the situation they're in because society they have no choice.

I'm sure I'd reply with something else you'd care to disregard as it appears you're out of touch with reality but I don't understand what you've written.

Quote from Hawk2007 : Mouse, I'm not justifying these deaths, however... is there anything at Walmart worth stealing and risking your life over? I read time and again from liberal apologists directed towards victims that "Is the theft of your car or Xbox 360 worth taking a life?" and.... NEVER... do I hear the apologists ask the criminal, "Is the theft of a car or Xbox worth risking your life over?" Hope all is well with you and your family Mr. Mouse.

Nice to hear from you again Hawk.
Thanks for the kind words, we are doing fairly well - and I return them two-fold concerning you and yours.

On to the question....
Personally?
No - but I can't speak for those who may be a lot worse off than I am.
I AM cognizant of the fact that a parent with children to feed, clothe, and house will be driven to sometimes extreme measures they might not normally take if they had an employment opportunity.
Not all shoplifters are poor, but SOME probably are.

Nor am I making excuses for shoplifters.
The premise I question is; how much are property rights worth, in comparison to a human life?

Wally World apparently feels shoplifting is a life or death struggle for them, and yet shoplifting elsewhere has never been the cause of a business failure in and of itself.
Only a poor economy and ill-fit to the market or bad management is going to kill a business.
When your principles, the original 6 descendants of Sam Walton, are pocketing more wealth between them than 30% of the rest of Americans combined [forbes.com], it is a fair question to ask.
Will the Walton clan face starvation and ruin due to the actions of a few shoplifters?
Is it really a justifiable life or death situation for them?
Will allowing a few shoplifters to escape lead to massed hoards flooding Wally World stores and stripping the shelves bare?

The slippery slope argument being used to justify this reckless abandon of the value of a human life seems a bit thin from my perspective.

Quote from 124nic8 : ....because cops (or security guards) never make mistakes?

No, because everyone has the ability to choose whether to obey the law or commit a crime, and they must accept the consequences of their decision, whatever they may be.

Had those persons who made a personal decision to commit the criminal act of shoplifting made the opposite choice not to shoplift, they would not have been the examples in this thread and the thread itself would have been a mere figment of the OP's imagination.

Quote from nobama : No, because everyone has the ability to choose whether to obey the law or commit a crime, and they must accept the consequences of their decision, whatever they may be. Had those persons who made a personal decision to commit the criminal act of shoplifting made the opposite choice not to shoplift, they would not have been the examples in this thread and the thread itself would have been a mere figment of the OP's imagination.

But if cops or security guards make mistakes as you've alluded they do, then perhaps those people did not commit a crime.....

Quote from Anonymouse : The slippery slope argument being used to justify this reckless abandon of the value of a human life seems a bit thin from my perspective.

Respectfully, as is your argument. You're somehow blaming Walmart for deaths that have occured at the hands of individuals who are in no way employed or contracted by Walmart yet you have continually disregarded that fact.

I mean seriously, a guy kills himself and Walmart is to blame!?!? Do you genuinely believe that? What exactly do you propose? Should they hire an exiter to wave at all those on the way out who have shoplifted? I for one applaud Walmart for defending their property, their business, and the livelihood of their employees.

You call out the Waltons but I assure you if Walmart started losing tons of $$ because everyone shoplifted you better believe all their employees would no longer be employed there. The Waltons aren't under any obligation to use their stores as a charity to help people in need.

Perhaps instead of bashing the Walton's, whose main fault is apparently being a true American success story (or the descendants), you should thank them for giving the largest charitable donation of 2012.

http://www.deseretnews.com/articl...-2011.html

Quote from nobama : Had those persons who made a personal decision to commit the criminal act of shoplifting made the opposite choice not to shoplift, they would not have been the examples in this thread and the thread itself would have been a mere figment of the OP's imagination.

But that would mean we hold people accountable for their actions and we all know there is a group in here that doesn't believe it that

I always like being their when the employee's do there cheer leading circle at the start of there shift. I get to laugh and make fun of them and they can't do anything about it.....or have I just been lucky it wasnt the security team

Quote from 124nic8 : But if cops or security guards make mistakes as you've alluded they do, then perhaps those people did not commit a crime.....

How many of the incidents in the OP's article are actually proven to have occurred due to LEO / security mistakes?

Quote from dollarbill : I always like being their when the employee's do there cheer leading circle at the start of there shift. I get to laugh and make fun of them and they can't do anything about it.....or have I just been lucky it wasnt the security team

Why laugh and make fun of them? Does it somehow make you feel like a bigger, more superior person? They're just trying to do a job and earn money for their families, as little as it is, and you should applaud them for not being welfare bums.