Tariffs, Jobs & The Giant Sucking Sound...

Quote from Danman114 : Yeah, serious question. Most children in 3rd world countries have to do work because they are poor. I'm just curious which company employs these children that take issue with?

You said that most children in 3rd world countries work because they are poor. Vietnam is a 3rd world country. Therefore, you acknowledge that they are being employed by individuals and companies in Vietnam.

If you already know that, then why are you asking me for the names of individuals/companies that hire child laborers? Why do you think I know more than you do about which Vietnamese companies and individuals are hiring child laborers?

Quote from kharvel : You said that most children in 3rd world countries work because they are poor. Vietnam is a 3rd world country. Therefore, you acknowledge that they are being employed by individuals and companies in Vietnam. If you already know that, then why are you asking me for the names of individuals/companies that hire child laborers? Why do you think I know more than you do about which Vietnamese companies and individuals are hiring child laborers?

I am not aware of any company that makes it a practice to hire children to produce goods who's destination is the US from Vietnam.

That doesn't mean children don't 'work'. Heck my little brother 'works', and he's not of legal age yet. I 'worked' before I turned 14 as well.

I didn't have a steady job, but whenever there was a money making opportunity like mowing lawns, shoveling driveways, painting, cleaning, etc., I was all over it. Doesn't mean I worked in a sweatshop though.

Quote from kharvel : It is NOT a necessity if it is used as a PUNISHMENT against certain groups. My arguments against it would be moot if and only if the exact same tax is applied to ALL corporations. Not just those that outsource.

Not necessarily as a punishment, but as a way to A. Increase the urge to employ Americans and B. Decrease the amount of lost tax revenue.

As for corporations that move their entire company overseas to avoid higher tariffs, I say put an embargo on them.

Quote : Because you are one of the consumers of the imported goods.

I buy Made in the USA when possible, but even if I didn't, the responsible party should be the corporations, not the people.

And considering that your implying that the people should be responsible for a corporation's expense sounds awfully like socialism to me. Or is it fascism?

Quote : Higher tariffs for imported goods lead to lost jobs, higher prices, and substandard products in the marketplace. For example, do you know why high-fructose corn syrup is used in most sugary soft drinks instead of cane sugar? Because there are high tariffs and/or quotas on cane sugar imports. Therefore, we have substandard soft drinks compared to the rest of the world which use cane sugar.

That's why I don't usually buy sodas or anything else with HFCS. In fact, real sugar products are making a comeback. Ever heard of Pepsi Throwback? Try it. It's much better than it's HFCS counterpart.

So, being that real sugar products are making a comeback, that's a primary example of what true capitalism is.

Quote : Advocating for tariffs is indeed SOCIALISM simply because it leads to higher prices and inferior goods in the marketplace.

Not when capitalism is allowed to flourish on it's own.

Quote : You think short-term which is not surprising. The children who work for 30 cents an hour in a Nike factory were previously making 10 cents an hour in the farms. The net difference of 20 cents an hour is extra money in their pockets which they use to buy more local goods. The shop owners who sell the local goods get more money from these kids. The shop owners in turn use the extra money and profits to buy higher quality goods for themselves. The companies that make the higher quality goods earn more income and thus hire more people to make the higher quality goods or increase the wages of their existing employees. The employees of the companies in turn use the extra money to buy more American merchandise. It is a long chain reaction starting from the very bottom of the pyramid but the net result is more American exports to these countries. As more and more children are hired, the child labor supply dries up and causes wage inflation which puts more money in the children's' pockets which leads to the more American merchandise purchases at the end of the chain reaction. In a generation or so, there will not be any more child laborers since their parents would be earning so much that virtually all the kids are going to school instead of working and our exports to these people would have multiplied manifold.

My, that's a nice pipe dream. Reality is quite different though. China is losing many of it's manufacturing jobs to Vietnam precisely because the labor is cheaper over there. And that's what will happen time and time again. Before anything you've written comes about, the manufacturer will simply move it's factory somewhere else where the people are even more oppressed and/or more desperate.

Simply put, your theory, emphasis on theory, doesn't play out in real life.

Quote : I just schooled you. See my comment above.

And the teacher becomes the pupil.

Quote : Sorry, did you just do one of your famous flip-flops-cum-deflection? I believe you said the following:

Yes, I did. Ever thought that maybe the children are better off working on the farm than a dirty, filthy factory crammed into living quarters with 10 other children? Ever see the documentary: Walmart: the high cost of low prices. Watch and learn something.

Quote : So in other words, you are in FAVOR of SOCIALIST and MARXIST LAWS.

Yeah, right.

Quote : Got it.

I've always 'gotten' it. Question is, do you?

Quote from Danman114 : I am not aware of any company that makes it a practice to hire children to produce goods who's destination is the US from Vietnam.

Neither of us are aware of the companies that hire child laborers because they are usually subcontractors or even sub-sub-contractors of companies that export to the U.S. You have to be familiar with the Vietnamese small business landscape to know which companies are hiring child laborers and which are not.

Quote : That doesn't mean children don't 'work'. Heck my little brother 'works', and he's not of legal age yet. I 'worked' before I turned 14 as well. I didn't have a steady job, but whenever there was a money making opportunity like mowing lawns, shoveling driveways, painting, cleaning, etc., I was all over it. Doesn't mean I worked in a sweatshop though.

When I said "work", I was referring to a full-time sweatshop job

Quote from charles052 : Not necessarily as a punishment, but as a way to A. Increase the urge to employ Americans and B. Decrease the amount of lost tax revenue. As for corporations that move their entire company overseas to avoid higher tariffs, I say put an embargo on them. I buy Made in the USA when possible, but even if I didn't, the responsible party should be the corporations, not the people. And considering that your implying that the people should be responsible for a corporation's expense sounds awfully like socialism to me. Or is it fascism? That's why I don't usually buy sodas or anything else with HFCS. In fact, real sugar products are making a comeback. Ever heard of Pepsi Throwback? Try it. It's much better than it's HFCS counterpart. So, being that real sugar products are making a comeback, that's a primary example of what true capitalism is. Not when capitalism is allowed to flourish on it's own. My, that's a nice pipe dream. Reality is quite different though. China is losing many of it's manufacturing jobs to Vietnam precisely because the labor is cheaper over there. And that's what will happen time and time again. Before anything you've written comes about, the manufacturer will simply move it's factory somewhere else where the people are even more oppressed and/or more desperate. Simply put, your theory, emphasis on theory, doesn't play out in real life. And the teacher becomes the pupil. Yes, I did. Ever thought that maybe the children are better off working on the farm than a dirty, filthy factory crammed into living quarters with 10 other children? Ever see the documentary: Walmart: the high cost of low prices. Watch and learn something. Yeah, right. I've always 'gotten' it. Question is, do you?

I almost pissed myself I laughed so hard.

Where do you think they grow the sugar cane? Why do you think HFCS is cheaper than sugar in the US? Do you know how much cheaper sugar would be if we would lower the tariff on sugar?

Quote from Xygonn : I almost pissed myself I laughed so hard. Where do you think they grow the sugar cane? Why do you think HFCS is cheaper than sugar in the US? Do you know how much cheaper sugar would be if we would lower the tariff on sugar?

I think you misunderstood the context of the comment in question. And sorry, I support a tariff on all imported products.

Quote from charles052 : I think you misunderstood the context of the comment in question. And sorry, I support a tariff on all imported products.

And they call libertarians the isolationists.

Quote from kharvel : Neither of us are aware of the companies that hire child laborers because they are usually subcontractors or even sub-sub-contractors of companies that export to the U.S. You have to be familiar with the Vietnamese small business landscape to know which companies are hiring child laborers and which are not.

It also helps to know that Vietnam law prevents those under 15 from working, which is actualy more strict than the US I think.

Quote from Danman114 : It also helps to know that Vietnam law prevents those under 15 from working, which is actualy more strict than the US I think.

Oh I see. So you are saying that because there is a law against child labor on the books in a third world country like Vietnam, there must not be any child labor on a massive scale in that country. Interesting and plausible argument you got there.

On a side note, I have a bridge in Brooklyn, NY that I can sell to you for a slick deal of just $200. Would you be interested? I accept Paypal.

Quote from kharvel : Oh I see. So you are saying that because there is a law against child labor on the books in a third world country like Vietnam, there must not be any child labor on a massive scale in that country. Interesting and plausible argument you got there.

So do you have any substantiation?

Quote from paperboy05 : So do you have any substantiation?

If only he had a company who openly hired children...

Quote from paperboy05 : So do you have any substantiation?

Substantiation for what?

Quote from Xygonn : And they call libertarians the isolationists.

Everyone that thinks that free trade is a terrific idea never had their job outsourced to another country.

Quote from charles052 : Everyone that thinks that free trade is a terrific idea never had their job outsourced to another country.

Want full employment? No downtime? No problem! Stop trading with other people. Take up subsistence farming in the pan handle of Idaho, where the federal government doesn't bother to go anymore (thanks to the Ruby Ridge incident). You don't have to worry about someone in China taking your potato harvesting job because it's your crop. You don't have to worry about Mexican leather works because you tan your own hides. You don't have to worry about the global economic situation because it won't reach your farm! Isolationism is the best!

Specialization is good for individuals and it is good for countries.