Tariffs, Jobs & The Giant Sucking Sound...

Quote from thikthird : remember back in the days? man them days is over.

I lived off of 5400 dollars for 9 months in college (2002-2003 school year). This budget did not include tuition, for which I had a merit scholarship. This included, housing, food, gas, insurance, bicycle repair. When I was feeling like having a "treat" on a friday after hard work, I would grab a slice of pizza at a good little pizza joint.

Rent+Utilities (including internet, but no TV) was about 350 a month=3150
Food was about 60 a month=540 (I usually measured my meals in cents per meal)
I mostly rode on my bike so gas was maybe 100 total
Insurance was 600

Total of that is 4390.

So I had about $1000 bucks of slop for clothes (which I pretty much never bought and just used what I had from high school), recreation (maybe I spent 200 on video games), booze (maybe 300 on the 9 months), Rugby gear and dues, and 30 bucks I spent on a new wheel for my bike.

Admittedly, my parents would have bailed me out if I had run into some major expense like a medical treatment. This is just a demonstration that minimum wage is more than enough to live on for one person. I agree that you can't raise a family of four on minimum wage. That's bad planning though.

It's possible to live off of relatively small amounts of money. In terms of min wage, that is 5400/[5.15 (at the time)*0.9235 (payroll tax)]=1135 hours. For a year 12/9*1135=1513

So that would only require a 3/4 time minimum wage job to keep up for a year. This does not include any government benefits that would be due to such a low wage earner.

Things too expensive to put on my recreation list:
Skiing
Movies at the theater
Drinking at a bar
Buying coffee at a coffee shop
Going to concerts (that weren't free)
Meals >$10 (even >$5 was rare)

ETA: I didn't have a phone, only skype pro, which was $36 for a year back then.

Quote from Xygonn : I lived off of 5400 dollars for 9 months in college (2002-2003 school year). This budget did not include tuition, for which I had a merit scholarship. This included, housing, food, gas, insurance, bicycle repair. When I was feeling like having a "treat" on a friday after hard work, I would grab a slice of pizza at a good little pizza joint. Rent+Utilities (including internet, but no TV) was about 350 a month=3150 Food was about 60 a month=540 (I usually measured my meals in cents per meal) I mostly rode on my bike so gas was maybe 100 total Insurance was 600 Total of that is 4390. So I had about $1000 bucks of slop for clothes (which I pretty much never bought and just used what I had from high school), recreation (maybe I spent 200 on video games), booze (maybe 300 on the 9 months), Rugby gear and dues, and 30 bucks I spent on a new wheel for my bike. Admittedly, my parents would have bailed me out if I had run into some major expense like a medical treatment. This is just a demonstration that minimum wage is more than enough to live on for one person. I agree that you can't raise a family of four on minimum wage. That's bad planning though. It's possible to live off of relatively small amounts of money. In terms of min wage, that is 5400/[5.15 (at the time)*0.9235 (payroll tax)]=1135 hours. For a year 12/9*1135=1513 So that would only require a 3/4 time minimum wage job to keep up for a year. This does not include any government benefits that would be due to such a low wage earner. Things too expensive to put on my recreation list: Skiing Movies at the theater Drinking at a bar Buying coffee at a coffee shop Going to concerts (that weren't free) Meals >$10 (even >$5 was rare) ETA: I didn't have a phone, only skype pro, which was $36 for a year back then.

so how did you pay your college loans, car payments, credit card payments, etc? where can one find an apartment in 2012 at 2002 prices? what kind of person other that a college student can get away with wearing 4+ year old clothes? what kind of person only needs to pay for their life only 9 out of the 12 months a year?

hmm...maybe there are people who's situations are in some way different to other people's situations. crazy, right?

Quote from MISHNAH : And why do you believe that? Just curious. Seems those days are still in effect for many people and other countries.

i believe it, because you said it.

"You DO realize that the reality in olden times..."

Quote from thikthird : so how did you pay your college loans, car payments, credit card payments, etc? where can one find an apartment in 2012 at 2002 prices? what kind of person other that a college student can get away with wearing 4+ year old clothes? what kind of person only needs to pay for their life only 9 out of the 12 months a year? hmm...maybe there are people who's situations are in some way different to other people's situations. crazy, right?

I bought the car outright for 2500 dollars with money I made in high school during a summer job.

I did not have college loans because I was on a merit scholarship (I thought I made that clear). However, if I wasn't going to college, I could have lived off the same amount of money. I never put more money on my credit card than I could pay off right away. I treated it the same as cash.

Any number of minimum wage job holders can get away with crummy clothes. Most have to wear a uniform at work anyway (which may or may not come out of their salary).

The whole problem can be inflation adjusted to 2012 prices. Minimum wage is now 7.25 so you can multiply all the budgets by 1.5.

You also will need roommates.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc...77187.html

Quote from Xygonn : I bought the car outright for 2500 dollars with money I made in high school during a summer job. I did not have college loans because I was on a merit scholarship (I thought I made that clear). However, if I wasn't going to college, I could have lived off the same amount of money. I never put more money on my credit card than I could pay off right away. I treated it the same as cash. Any number of minimum wage job holders can get away with crummy clothes. Most have to wear a uniform at work anyway (which may or may not come out of their salary). The whole problem can be inflation adjusted to 2012 prices. Minimum wage is now 7.25 so you can multiply all the budgets by 1.5. You also will need roommates. http://seattle.craigslist.org/skc...77187.html

i guess you missed the point of my post. admittedly it came at the end.

Quote from thikthird : i believe it, because you said it. "You DO realize that the reality in olden times..."

I know what I said. Are you implying that, what worked in the past, no longer works in the future??

Quote from MISHNAH : I know what I said. Are you implying that, what worked in the past, no longer works in the future??

certain things work in the past that no longer work in the present. certain things work for some people that don't work for other people.

Quote from thikthird : i guess you missed the point of my post. admittedly it came at the end.

If your point is that some people are terrible at managing money, I agree.

People should not buy stuff they can't afford (solves CC payments).

They should not buy an expensive car (really a subset of the first point, which is to not buy stuff you can't afford).

They should not go to college for valueless degrees if they don't have the money to go for fun.

Most frequently people don't end up in bad financial dire straits because of bad luck, but because of bad decisions.

Quote from thikthird : certain things work in the past that no longer work in the present. certain things work for some people that don't work for other people.

Hurry!! Somebody tell all the farmers in India, China and other developing countries to keep farming, and not move to the city for high-paying industrial jobs!! I know that worked in the past for most of West, but yup, it definitely cant work now!

Just remember that those "some people" were also your damn ancestors who did what they needed to do to come here and get a job.

Or you can just admit that you, and "other people" are lazy and stupid and not willing to advance themselves.

Quote from Xygonn : If your point is that some people are terrible at managing money, I agree. People should not buy stuff they can't afford (solves CC payments). They should not buy an expensive car (really a subset of the first point, which is to not buy stuff you can't afford). They should not go to college for valueless degrees if they don't have the money to go for fun. Most frequently people don't end up in bad financial dire straits because of bad luck, but because of bad decisions.

what if people can't afford food? is starving an acceptable alternative to charging it?

what if you buy a cheap car? you still have to make payments on those.

what if you go to college for a valuable degree (see book of xygonn appendix c for list of valuable degrees) and can't find a job?

Quote from MISHNAH : Hurry!! Somebody tell all the farmers in India, China and other developing countries to keep farming, and not move to the city for high-paying industrial jobs!! I know that worked in the past for most of West, but yup, it definitely cant work now! Just remember that those "some people" were also your damn ancestors who did what they needed to do to come here and get a job. Or you can just admit that you, and "other people" are lazy and stupid and not willing to advance themselves.

hurry! tell someone from from jacksonville, fl who hasn't worked in 6 months to get to williston, nd somehow and find a job!

i also like how you call me lazy and stupid just because i'm advocating for those with less means to better themselves.

Quote from thikthird : hurry! tell someone from from jacksonville, fl who hasn't worked in 6 months to get to williston, nd somehow and find a job!

It they had half a brain, they may have been in Williston 6 months ago! If you can scrounge up a few hundred bucks to get there and have at least some work experience, you can have a decent job overnight.

Everybody else up there gave up their previous situations, and may have taken great pains to get there. But now, they have a job and $$$, while the guy in jacksonville is panhandling and worrying about his low self-esteem.

Quote from thikthird : i also like how you call me lazy and stupid just because i'm advocating for those with less means to better themselves.

Hand UP, not hand OUT, there's a difference. Learn it.

Quote from thikthird : what kind of person other that a college student can get away with wearing 4+ year old clothes?

The kind who earns six figures in a corporate job and in his job, wears 10 year old dress shirts bought on Amazon/TJ Maxx/Ross for $10 each.

Quote from thikthird : what if people can't afford food? is starving an acceptable alternative to charging it?

It is impossible not to afford food on minimum wage.

Quote : what if you buy a cheap car? you still have to make payments on those.

Take the bus or public transit, build up savings, and use the savings to buy a cheap car for $2,500 - $5,000 in cash.

Quote : what if you go to college for a valuable degree (see book of xygonn appendix c for list of valuable degrees) and can't find a job?

The only way you cannot find a job after graduating with a valuable degree is if you deliberately did not look for one.

Quote from MISHNAH : It they had half a brain, they may have been in Williston 6 months ago! If you can scrounge up a few hundred bucks to get there and have at least some work experience, you can have a decent job overnight. Everybody else up there gave up their previous situations, and may have taken great pains to get there. But now, they have a job and $$$, while the guy in jacksonville is panhandling and worrying about his low self-esteem. Hand UP, not hand OUT, there's a difference. Learn it.

maybe we should figure out a way to build a time machine, then go around helping out poor people, by telling them where jobs will be, and giving them a few hundred dollars to get there, and then going further back in time and giving them a job to get some work experience.