Michigan State Rep Barred From Speaking After 'Vagina' Comments

Quote from smegalicious : You're the one making the claim. Maybe you should find out *before* you put words in her mouth (or any other body part). Maybe rational people don't see the world in absolutes where being against one law involving vaginas means one must automatically be against all laws involving vaginas.

Its pretty clear (if you bother to listen to her short speech) that she is talking the entire time about not turning people personl/religious beliefes into laws to rule other people. its basically the only point she makes. So her final quote (about her vagina) is a clear reference to keeping other peoples laws off her vagina. She doesn't want other people telling her what to do with her vagina. this is NOT a new arguement used by the pro-choice crowd.... the "its my body" argument has been used innumerable times. I am simpliy pointing out that a person using this type of stance (no laws on my vagina) would be a hypocrite to turn around and support other laws on vaginas (prostitution for example).

Sure, some people may be in favor of one law "on vaginas" and not another.... but its hypocritical to use the "get your law off my body" for one law and take the opposite possition for another law.

Quote : Because a medical abortion is typically only used up to 9 weeks gestation. Earlier you claimed that 20 weeks was "plenty of time." So what are women supposed to use between 9-20 weeks? Why must you refuse to answer the question? You can call it whatever you like. That doesn't mean it's logically consistent with your earlier statements about the law in question involving vaginas.

in the case of a surgical abortion the vagina is simply a passage way to remove the "terminated" (dead) fetus. the actuall killing of the baby takes place in the uterus or "womb". its like a colonoscopy, you pass through the anus to view the colon, there is no point in glorifying the anus' contribution to a colonoscopy.

Quote : If child support laws regulate penises, then abortion laws regulate vaginas. Or else you fall victim to the same double-standard that you railed against earlier.

its far more accurate to say that abortion laws regulate the WOMB or UTERUS. the baby does not live in the vagina. the word vagina was used by her for shock value only.

BTW, if you continue with the personal attacks I will just place you on ignore.

Quote from SigX : Its pretty clear (if you bother to listen to her short speech) that she is talking the entire time about not turning people personl/religious beliefes into laws to rule other people. its basically the only point she makes. So her final quote (about her vagina) is a clear reference to keeping other peoples laws off her vagina. She doesn't want other people telling her what to do with her vagina. this is NOT a new arguement used by the pro-choice crowd.... the "its my body" argument has been used innumerable times. I am simpliy pointing out that a person using this type of stance (no laws on my vagina) would be a hypocrite to turn around and support other laws on vaginas (prostitution for example).

Strawman.

At first, you classify her disagreement as not wanting "personal/religious" beliefs codified into laws regulating vaginas. Then you conveniently change that argument to *no* laws regulating vaginas, then use that changed argument to display her supposed hypocrisy.

Quote : Sure, some people may be in favor of one law "on vaginas" and not another.... but its hypocritical to use the "get your law off my body" for one law and take the opposite possition for another law.

How about "get your *religious* law off my body"?

Quote : in the case of a surgical abortion the vagina is simply a passage way to remove the "terminated" (dead) fetus. the actuall killing of the baby takes place in the uterus or "womb". its like a colonoscopy, you pass through the anus to view the colon, there is no point in glorifying the anus' contribution to a colonoscopy.

Similarly, semen passes through the penis. There is no point in glorifying the penis' contribution to a pregnancy.

Quote : its far more accurate to say that abortion laws regulate the WOMB or UTERUS. the baby does not live in the vagina. the word vagina was used by her for shock value only.

Then it would be far more accurate to say that child support laws regulate semen, not penises. An empty penis can't make a woman pregnant.

Quote : BTW, if you continue with the personal attacks I will just place you on ignore.

Where did I attack you? Pointing out the logical inconsistencies in your argument is hardly a "personal attack."

Quote from smegalicious : Strawman. At first, you classify her disagreement as not wanting "personal/religious" beliefs codified into laws regulating vaginas. Then you conveniently change that argument to *no* laws regulating vaginas, then use that changed argument to display her supposed hypocrisy. How about "get your *religious* law off my body"?

if she believes that no person shuld impose there person beliefes on another person vagina, how can there be any law on any vagina?

Quote : Similarly, semen passes through the penis. There is no point in glorifying the penis' contribution to a pregnancy.

penis plays a larger (pun intended) role than that. sperm does not impregnate a woman without some work involved.

Quote : Then it would be far more accurate to say that child support laws regulate semen, not penises. An empty penis can't make a woman pregnant.

a fetus spends 20 weeks in the uterus and 30 senconds traveling through the vagina and you think the vagina is more important than the uterus and therefor any abortion law regulates the vagina more than the uterus??? is this realy YOUR opinion?

Quote : Where did I attack you? Pointing out the logical inconsistencies in your argument is hardly a "personal attack."

then why makes comment about being scared for my patients???? thats not a personal attack?

Quote from SigX : if she believes that no person shuld impose there person beliefes on another person vagina, how can there be any law on any vagina?

Perhaps because some laws transcend mere "personal" belief. The vast majority of society believes that raping a vagina should not be allowed, hence secular laws outlawing such actions.

Quote : penis plays a larger (pun intended) role than that. sperm does not impregnate a woman without some work involved.

Can you pass a 10lb baby through your penis?

Then just imagine how "large" a role the vagina plays in accomodating one.

Quote : a fetus spends 20 weeks in the uterus and 30 senconds traveling through the vagina and you think the vagina is more important than the uterus and therefor any abortion law regulates the vagina more than the uterus??? is this realy YOUR opinion?

Nope. That's just another one of your convenient strawmen.

I never made any such comparisons about the "importance" of the uterus or vagina in relation to childbirth.

Quote : then why makes comment about being scared for my patients???? thats not a personal attack?

No, that's a true statement given your response to a question specifically about *surgical* abortion.

Quote from smegalicious : Perhaps because some laws transcend mere "personal" belief. The vast majority of society believes that raping a vagina should not be allowed, hence secular laws outlawing such actions.

in the case of abortion the law limits the right/actions of the woman to impose her will on the unborn fetus. In this case a por-lifer considers the fetus to have some rights (which have nothing to do with the vagina). in the case of violent crimes (such as rape but incliding others) the woman is the victim, and the part of her body which is victim is not as important as the crime itself (one could choose to rape via the anus or the mouth). Hence, neither laws specifically place the law on her "vagina". this of course ignores the fact that rape laws limit the actions of the perp where as abortion laws limit the actions of the mom.

Quote : Can you pass a 10lb baby through your penis? Then just imagine how "large" a role the vagina plays in accomodating one.

abortion ivolves deliving 10 pound fetuses? i dont think so.

Quote : Nope. That's just another one of your convenient strawmen. I never made any such comparisons about the "importance" of the uterus or vagina in relation to childbirth.

its not a straw man, its a question. do you think the vagina has a bigger role than the uterus?

Quote : No, that's a true statement given your response to a question specifically about *surgical* abortion.

its a statment specifically meant to attack me and added NOTHING to the discussion other than to attack me. its your choice if you want to do that, i will just place you on ignore.

Quote from SigX : in the case of abortion the law limits the right/actions of the woman to impose her will on the unborn fetus. In this case a por-lifer considers the fetus to have some rights (which have nothing to do with the vagina). in the case of violent crimes (such as rape but incliding others) the woman is the victim, and the part of her body which is victim is not as important as the crime itself (one could choose to rape via the anus or the mouth). Hence, neither laws specifically place the law on her "vagina". this of course ignores the fact that rape laws limit the actions of the perp where as abortion laws limit the actions of the mom.

None of that provides any substantiation to your claim that if she is against this particular law that involves, however slight, a vagina, that she must be against any & all laws that involve, however slight, a vagina.

Quote : abortion ivolves deliving 10 pound fetuses? i dont think so.

Were you talking about abortion in the portion of your post that I quoted? I don't think so...

penis plays a larger (pun intended) role than that. sperm does not impregnate a woman without some work involved.

Quote : its not a straw man, its a question. do you think the vagina has a bigger role than the uterus?

No.

How is that a *relevant* question?

Quote : its a statment specifically meant to attack me and added NOTHING to the discussion other than to attack me. its your choice if you want to do that, i will just place you on ignore.

It was a statement specifically meant to attack your deflection from providing a direct answer to the question asked of you.

It's also your choice to mod-alert it if you feel so strongly that it was a "personal attack" against you.

Quote from smegalicious : None of that provides any substantiation to your claim that if she is against this particular law that involves, however slight, a vagina, that she must be against any & all laws that involve, however slight, a vagina. Were you talking about abortion in the portion of your post that I quoted? I don't think so... penis plays a larger (pun intended) role than that. sperm does not impregnate a woman without some work involved. No. How is that a *relevant* question? It was a statement specifically meant to attack your deflection from providing a direct answer to the question asked of you. It's also your choice to mod-alert it if you feel so strongly that it was a "personal attack" against you.

ignore is better.

Quote from SigX : ignore is better.

But deflection is best?

Quote from SigX : in the case of abortion the law limits the right/actions of the woman to impose her will on the unborn fetus..

It's not your fetus, it's not my fetus, and it certainly isn't the government's fetus. It is HER body. A woman's body belongs to her.

Quote from Rebound : It's not your fetus, it's not my fetus, and it certainly isn't the government's fetus. It is HER body. A woman's body belongs to her.

and you feel this way about a woman personal sovereignty over her body in all laws or just abortion? so you are for legalizing prostitution and illegal drugs or this attitude about "its her body" only applies wrt abortion?

Quote from SigX : and you feel this way about a woman personal sovereignty over her body in all laws or just abortion? so you are for legalizing prostitution and illegal drugs or this attitude about "its her body" only applies wrt abortion?

You have said that late-term abortions are unacceptable. So do you feel this way about a woman's lack of personal sovereignty over her body wrt all laws and/or medical procedures? Or are you just a hypocrite who believes one thing in one instance & something else in other instances (because there are no shades of grey, only absolute positions & hypocrites)?

Quote from SigX : and you feel this way about a woman personal sovereignty over her body in all laws or just abortion? so you are for legalizing prostitution and illegal drugs or this attitude about "its her body" only applies wrt abortion?

Why not? 50,000 dead in Mexico because of illegal drugs? People jailed 20 years for possessing a little cocaine --- we jail them because coke is bad for them? That makes no sense.

And, talk about government waste -- why jail a woman for sex?