Solar Panel(s) Wind Turbine(s) which is best for electric savings? (If any)

I'm looking at solar in CT where I pay 19 cents/kw. The solar array will cost me (after state and federal incentives) between $11-$13k depending on how I can do the fed tax credit. My monthly electric bill should drop from $165/month (average) to about $50/month. My payback should be 8-9 yrs if rates stay level. I'm betting they go up of course. The life expectancy of the panels are 25-35 yrs. The inverter life expectancy is about 15 yrs. So, I expect a $1500 charge at that point. The panels lose .5-1 % efficiency /yr, but over time I'll probably offset that with more efficient appliances. I've already done the programmable thermostat, extra attic insulation, 18 SEER AC, woodstove. I've gone from 1200 gals of oil/year to 240 gals last yr. I'm open to reasons not to put in panels, but right now the return seems high enough to proceed assuming electric rates rise.

Quote from freeguy007 : My monthly electric bill should drop from $165/month (average) to about $50/month.

No way, no how, no where, no chance, none , nada, zilch, end of story. 20% tops. $33/month for you. A fool and their money are soon parted. Anyone that buys a solar array is a fool and they will part with their money.

Also the panels lose more than 1%/year.

Quote from dealgate : A fool and their money are soon parted. Anyone that buys a solar array is a fool and they will part with their money.

In a lot of cases you would be much better off taking the money that you would have spent on solar panels and investing in a dividend paying utility stock. Even after taxes, the money you will be making off the stock will most likely exceed your utility bills.

Quote from dealgate : No way, no how, no where, no chance, none , nada, zilch, end of story. 20% tops. $33/month for you. A fool and their money are soon parted. Anyone that buys a solar array is a fool and they will part with their money. Also the panels lose more than 1%/year.

I felt that way too, but a friend put a similar sized system on his roof in 2009 & his average bill is about $35 (down from about $225). What are you basing your claims on? I went into this thinking like you that solar was not mature enough to look at but since my tax dollars were funding it anyway, I might as well look into it. There are some things I had to dig for to add to my ROI calculation that most vendors don't mention (like inverter replacement, extra cost with roof replacement), but my research shows this will work. If you have sources to back up your claims I want to read them though. I've not committed to anything yet.

Sorry I need to correct of the incorrect information.

Quote from dealgate : Solar panels do not create enough electricity to run a home central A/C unit. Period. Solar panels are good for lighting and other low draw devices. They do not have enough amps to power something demanding like an A/C unit.

If you have a battery bank big enough to power the ac and have the solar charge the batteries it will work in theory. It's not feasable though.

Quote : The theory with solar is that you sell what you don't use back to the utility (they have to buy it) but in reality, they don't ever create more power than you are using at any given time unless you commonly shut everything down. So in reality, there will be very little left over to sell back to the utility.

This is vastly incorrect. What you produce is tied to the how big of a solar system you put up and how much it produces. I installed my PV system in June, and so far have produced 220 KW more then I used.

I have paid the minimum charge (ie stand-by) for 3 months. IE my bill went from $250 to $20.

Quote : You will never have an ROI on any solar system. It is a myth. Unless it is free, it will cost you more that you will ever make on the system. Typically they are $20k-$50k to put in. Most models show a 20 year ROI and that is assuming the system needs no maintenance and will continue to collect a consistent amount of power over the 20 years, which is unrealistic.

MY ROI should be a ~5 years (not counting maintenance/increases to the price of electricity).

It cost me $24.9k for a 5.5 KW system, of which I will receive 12k back in tax credits.

I save $230 (average per month) bringing my break even point around 56-57 months

Quote : What you frequently see is people getting these, realizing that they have been sold a bunch of magic beans, cut their power usage to the bone to make up for the duping, and then they can show the illusion of some savings. But in reality, had they just cut everything back and not gotten the solar system, they would be way farther ahead. Save your money.

Or I could install the solar system, not have to drastically change my life or having to worry about my wife running the dryer, and recoup my cost in 5 years. After 5 years everything is bonus.

Even without the tax credits, it would take 10 years for the ROI.

Edit: I purposely oversized my system, I wanted to offset any decrease in effeciency or long periods of bad weather.

Quote from zzyzzx : In a lot of cases you would be much better off taking the money that you would have spent on solar panels and investing in a dividend paying utility stock. Even after taxes, the money you will be making off the stock will most likely exceed your utility bills.

WOW, please show me which stock I can buy that would pay me ~230 a month in dividends on a 12k investment. I am interested!

Quote from 808Lurker : WOW, please show me which stock I can buy that would pay me ~230 a month in dividends on a 12k investment. I am interested!

Seriously.

I don't get the whole hate solar crowd. I don't know if this guy is using old figured but these days solar is notably cheaper than it was 5 years ago. Sure there are costs with solar but my bill for average cost on my last bill was 20 cents a kw. About 40% of my bill is at 10-12 cents while the remaining 60% is tiered up to the low 30 cents a kw.

Financially for me it didn't make sense when I looked at it and tried to replace all my usage but at 30 cents a kw you can easily justify putting in a system to cut your bill in half .

If you truly are in HI I imagine it's even better you financially. Last time I looked Kauai had rates in excess of 40 cents/kw. Putting in a system in an area like that seems to be a no brainer.

One of my neighbors is getting a system installed on his house for free. He basically provides the roof, a company provides the hardware, install, and maintenance, and he's in a long term fixed price agreement where he pays a rate that is less than his upper tier and the rate he pays won't go up for X years. Sounds like a great deal. He doesn't have any of the financial outlay risk while instead of paying 30 cents a kw (for his upper tier usage) he pays 20 cents (or whatever he's paying) for the energy the system produces. I was considering it actually but I was considering selling the house and didn't want to deal with it if I did.

I don't know if this is the company he is using or what but it's a link to a company that offers a similar service.

http://www.solarcity.com/resident...r-ppa.aspx

Quote from LivninSC : Seriously. I don't get the whole hate solar crowd. I don't know if this guy is using old figured but these days solar is notably cheaper than it was 5 years ago. Sure there are costs with solar but my bill for average cost on my last bill was 20 cents a kw. About 40% of my bill is at 10-12 cents while the remaining 60% is tiered up to the low 30 cents a kw.

I know, I was shocked by the hate. Granted it's not for everyone, but run the numbers. For me it was a no-brainer. Last I checked we pay around ~44 cents a kw.

Quote : Financially for me it didn't make sense when I looked at it and tried to replace all my usage but at 30 cents a kw you can easily justify putting in a system to cut your bill in half .

Exactly.

Quote : One of my neighbors is getting a system installed on his house for free. He basically provides the roof, a company provides the hardware, install, and maintenance, and he's in a long term fixed price agreement where he pays a rate that is less than his upper tier and the rate he pays won't go up for X years. Sounds like a great deal. He doesn't have any of the financial outlay risk while instead of paying 30 cents a kw (for his upper tier usage) he pays 20 cents (or whatever he's paying) for the energy the system produces. I was considering it actually but I was considering selling the house and didn't want to deal with it if I did. I don't know if this is the company he is using or what but it's a link to a company that offers a similar service. http://www.solarcity.com/resident...r-ppa.aspx

The thing that is killing me, I talked with my contractor and panel prices of plummeted. What cost me 24.9k, 3 months ago would cost me 19k today. If the prices continue to fall it will be more attractive to more people.

Just the amount of hate shocked me. Just like everything else, run the numbers for yourself.

Quote from 808Lurker : The thing that is killing me, I talked with my contractor and panel prices of plummeted. What cost me 24.9k, 3 months ago would cost me 19k today. If the prices continue to fall it will be more attractive to more people.

Seriously. Panels around this wattage and quality were running $1k when I looked at it. Now, $612! 16 panels X $400 savings = $6,400 cheaper in only a couple of years, and just for the panel!

http://webosolar.com/store/en/sol...odule.html

Just realized I looked in to this about 3 years ago, not 5 years ago.

Heh, $525 here - http://www.solarpanelsonline.org/...140028.htm

You guys are getting raped on electricity costs...but if you live in Socal, you get raped on everything and have bankrupt governments giving tax credits.

Texas electricity costs are $.09-.10/Kw

Quote from 8mpg : You guys are getting raped on electricity costs...but if you live in Socal, you get raped on everything and have bankrupt governments giving tax credits. Texas electricity costs are $.09-.10/Kw

That's why I said most people would be better off buying a dividend paying stock. If you live in CA or HI, yeah, then solar panels might make more sense.

Clearly, solar panels are way cheaper than they were even a year ago, but I don' t necessarily expect this trend to continue. Of course cheaper solar cells make this using solar cells economically viable for more people, but since rooftop space is still a consideration for a lot of people (probably most) more efficient cells would also make a big difference, and I am sure that there are plenty of people for more efficient cells as well.

We don't HATE solar power, it just doesn't make sense for most of us.

For me to run off 100% solar power *most* of the time it will cost me $101,000. This is extremely in the best case scenario.

Or I can pay $1200 a year to the electric company and enjoy electric in the winter months as well as dependable energy in the summer.

Solar energy is not economically feasible for me or anyone within 500 miles of me. Make the technology better or cheaper and then it might change.

Quote from 8mpg : You guys are getting raped on electricity costs...but if you live in Socal, you get raped on everything and have bankrupt governments giving tax credits. Texas electricity costs are $.09-.10/Kw

Is that flat rate costs? Do you not have tiers? I for example get 300 kw at about 10-12 cents and then it jumps up to 22-24 cents for another 300 kw and then the next tier is 33 cents or higher.

It's funny but when I used to watch that House Hunter show I always thought people who were adamant about not getting a pool were stupid. Take it, why not I always thought! Hah!, Water, electricity, maintenance, chemicals! Sadly I almost never use it and now I'm one of those people. Anyways, I have to use a lot of electricity because of the damn pool. If I don't it gets naaaaaaaaaaaaasty!