Good middle-of-the-road desktop needed

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Good middle-of-the-road desktop needed

First off, I'm not as computer-savvy as most of you here may be so I have a hard time distinguishing what's what and what's better between the Intel processors versus AMD processors (as well as from one AMD processor to another). I would like to get a middle-of-the-road desktop for everyday use that includes multitasking between different applications, web browsing, word processing, video editing, light gaming (NBA 2K, FIFA, Sleeping Dogs, GTA, Need For Speed, etc.), etc. I have about $200 in Amazon GC and am looking to spend up to $500 in addition to that so I'm looking at a desktop for around $700, preferably on Amazon since I have the GC.

About a month ago, I had seriously thought about getting the HP p7-1240 that was priced at $500 before it went out of stock and now it's back up to $600. Currently, I'm looking at the HP HPE h8-1210 that's priced at $600 on Amazon. Is this a good deal for my budget? How does it compare to the p7-1240? Or do you think I could do better and wait for a better deal? If so, would could I get with my budget? I'm not in a hurry to get one right now so I can wait if I have to.

Thanks for taking the time to read my post and hopefully you can have a recommendation or input.

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08-28-2012, 11:12 AM
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08-29-2012, 09:13 PM

shnitz

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Well, you need to decide on how much you want to overclock, and whether you want a traditional desktop setup with the FX that you have traditional graphics cards for, or if you're more partial to the APU setup of the A10 processor. The A10 is newer, but you'll have to do your own searching as to whether the A10 or the FX processor is more suited to you. Read about the A10 and the APU:
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/a10...32463.html

Good discussion on the AM3+ socket (the FX processor) vs. the FM2 (A10 with APU):
http://www.amdzone.com/phpbb3/vie...2&t=139237
The FX seems more upgradeable, but as mentioned, the APU can run in Crossfire with another cheap graphics card.

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08-31-2012, 10:44 PM

deelseaker

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With your budget and your requirements, I don't think you need to limit yourself to the A10 or, even worse, the FX. Your budget is enough to actually get you an Intel Core i7 or at least an i5. I would hold out for a deal on an Ivy Bridge-based CPU (i5-3450 and up or an i7-3770). The key will be to get something with a 400W+ power supply to handle a decent budget video card.

There is a very good Costco deal on an i7-3770-based HP that is surprisingly still alive. It's about $680 after tax and shipping. However, it does not come with a discrete graphics card and has only a 300W power supply. If you have a Costco store nearby (for an easy return), I would give it a try. You might actually find the integrated Intel 4000 graphics sufficient for your gaming needs. And that CPU is definitely more than capable to do anything else. Or stalk the Dell Outlet for an XPS 8500 or a Vostro 470.

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09-01-2012, 03:24 PM

shnitz

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Quote from deelseaker

I am not sure that you're being completely unbiased here. Why "even worse, the FX?" It's a decent processor that will do very well for today's tasks. In fact, the A10 processor is basically just an Athlon II with an integrated graphics card (AMD calls it an APU), so processor-for-processor the FX is better than the A10. That Costco computer, besides being 15% more expensive, as you mention has a very high upgrade cost as you're starting out with HD 3000 graphics and a weak power supply. Don't get me wrong, Intel processors are great, but once you start setting budget requirements for most people, AMD is often a better choice. That "even worse" FX computer has a 460W power supply, and while the currently installed GT 520 isn't anything to rave about, it's noticeably better for gaming than Intel 3000 graphics. The integrated HD 7660 of the A10 is another couple steps above, and in most of today's games, as long as you have a semi-decent processor, your graphics card is the bottleneck. I agree that the processor in the Costco computer is very good, but it's not a rounded-out system; for the same price as just the computer, you can either get the FX system and straight upgrade the graphics card, or get the A10 system and get yourself a card that will Crossfire with the APU. Honestly though, I'd rather spend $600 and keep the rest of the money until the future, when I would see a slowdown, and make a choice from there. Because to make anything even decent with the Intel system, the $600 budget becomes an $800 budget.

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09-01-2012, 05:09 PM

deelseaker

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I will level the field by linking to where I came into this discussion from: http://slickdeals.net/f/5125716-H...ng-Staples. The point I was making was:

that A10-based p7-1240 for $500 + tax is better than this FX-based h8-1210 for $580.
Neither of them are as powerful as the i7-based h8xt except for better graphics in the p7-1240.

Certain things are a matter of opinion, and I am not going to argue with you. I will just fix the things you got wrong, so the OP can make a decision based on true facts:

Quote from shnitz

you're starting out with HD 3000 graphics

i7-3770 has Intel 4000 graphics

Quote from shnitz

the currently installed GT 520 isn't anything to rave about, it's noticeably better for gaming than Intel 3000 graphics.

As we established above, it is Intel 4000 graphics vs. GT 520. And GT 520 is NOT noticeably better. Page through this review [anandtech.com] to see how Intel 4000 beats GT 520 in most benchmarks; when trails, it trails very slightly. And how both of them get killed by HD 6550D (which is slower than HD 7660D).

Quote from shnitz

you can either get the FX system and straight upgrade the graphics card, or get the A10 system and get yourself a card that will Crossfire with the APU.

According to the OP, he is "not as computer-savvy" and among his requirements is only "light gaming". Is upgrading the graphics card or Crossfire'ing something he is looking forward to?

Here are some other things that are more subjective:

Quote from shnitz

the $600 budget

From the OP: "so I'm looking at a desktop for around $700". $200 of that is in Amazon GC, but I think it would still be worth more than $100 on the open market or could be put to a better use buying something else of need on Amazon.

Quote from shnitz

I'd rather spend $600 and keep the rest of the money until the future, when I would see a slowdown, and make a choice from there.

While there may be a contest between the A10 and the FX, there is no contest with the i7. The said slowdown will not happen anywhere as fast.

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09-01-2012, 05:51 PM

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GREAT debate guys and thanks for the replies. Those were exactly the type of info that I was looking for to make my purchase decision, except I'm kinda clouded now with the additional info that was fed to me. It seems like the more I know, the less I understand. Confused

As I had mentioned previously, I was on the fence when the p7-1240 was at $500 on Amazon about a month and a half ago and then it went out of stock before I could decide to pull the trigger. So now I come across the h8-1210 which to my limited knowledge thus far was equivalent to it (that's why I needed you guys' input to make sure and I believe shnitz seems to backthis a bit).

Deelseaker, your latest post was VERY precise and informative to my objective. But now, I'm even more torn now that you mentioned that I could even get an Intel Core i7, or at least I could hold out for out. Frown

As for the HPE h8xt from Costco, I could keep an eye out on it if and when Amazon has it around that price, as well as any other systems that are sold by other retailers because I would really like to use the $200 GC towards it. As I'd mentioned before, I'm not in any hurry to get a system right now since I recently got in on the Lenovo Z580 deal for $400 after a $100 student VISA GC deal that made front page about a month ago. It seems like my decision is getting even harder now. Oh by the way, I just checked the price of the h8-1210 on Amazon and it's back to $779 and sold by a third party so Amazon must have sold out on those so that one is no longer an option for me at this time. *Sigh* What to do, what to do...

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09-01-2012, 07:11 PM

deelseaker

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Quote from IronMonkey

That's how it usually is. laugh out loud

Don't worry about the missed Amazon deal. You would trully be wasting at least part of that $200 Amazon GC on it. Is there a way to sell the Amazon GC? How much can you get for it?

My thinking is: If you manage to successfully unload the GC, you will be in a better position to jump on a great deal when BF nears, at any retailer and not necessarily Amazon.

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09-02-2012, 02:48 PM

shnitz

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Fair enough, I assumed the graphics would be HD 3000, because I thought they would have advertised it being HD 4000 if it was, or that someone in the thread would have pointed it out (wasn't familiar with the specific processor). I agree that HD 4000 is a small bit better than the FX's graphics card. Upgrading the graphics card doesn't require one to be savvy; there are tons of videos online. My whole point is that for the $80 difference in price, at these low budgets the AMD systems are the better choice, even the FX system by virtue of it being $80 less plus the additional $25 at least that you'd spend on a power supply (that $105 alone gets you a better graphics card, which is the bottleneck on all of these). Increase the budget to $900-$1,000, however, and sure, the i7 system would stomp the AMD systems, as well as many other desktop deals that you are seeing around here. Much of the money is in the processor, it's begging to be upgraded.Throw in another 8GB of RAM for $35, upgrade the PSU for another $30 after rebate, a solid $150 graphics card, and perhaps a small SSD to use as the boot drive, and the i7 would be a very competitive machine.

I agree that the OP is better off getting the $500 deal as well, but my recommendation was just adhering to what he could get from Amazon, and more specifically what he found. OP, considering that Amazon sells pretty much everything you need, it isn't difficult to use those gift cards towards something else maybe? For example, appliances for the kitchen, tools, future computer games, etc. Heck, my last purchase on Amazon was a box of deodorant, toothbrushes and toothpaste, aftershave, and pancake mix! There must be things, even everyday stuff, that you could use the Amazon giftcard for, and buy that Staples desktop instead.

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09-03-2012, 12:00 AM

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This is really a personal and psychological thing for me, but I actually prefer to keep the Amazon GC because part of the reason I'm deciding to upgrade to a new desktop system is because of that, and that it just feels better to me psychologically and easier to pull the trigger and pay up to $500 for a system that is $700 as opposed to paying $500 for a $500 system. Now if I were able to convert that GC into cash and to use towards a new system elsewhere, then it's a little harder for me psychologically to pull the trigger. I know, I'm just a little weird when it comes to purchase decisions. But I do appreciate both of you guys' inputs though. I think I will be stalking Amazon for when either of the p7-1240 or HPE h8xt goes down in price to pull the trigger or wait for another good deal to come along. One question for the Intel systems. If it says "Intel HD" for the video card, how do you know which one it really is?

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09-03-2012, 03:13 PM

shnitz

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Quote from IronMonkey

For Intel (and for the AMD APU's), the graphics is embedded onto the processor. So go to Intel or AMD's webpage, and look up the processor. It will tell you which graphics it has.

Frankly, that's not very good reasoning though. It's the same faulty reasoning that leads friends and family to enable drug addicts, for example. They think, "Oh, I'm just covering their rent, not their habit" or "I'm buying them food, not heroin." But at the end of the day, money is money. Whether you use your $200 gift card towards a desktop, or use your own money towards a desktop instead of towards groceries, turning around and then using the Amazon giftcard on groceries, you end up the same, except as dealseaker pointed out, you end up with $100 in your pocket. If I had known that thread since the beginning, I wouldn't have even bothered mentioning the differences. Get the $500 Staples desktop and don't look back.

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#11

09-03-2012, 03:57 PM

deelseaker

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Harsh analogy laugh out loud

, but

Not that I have kept a scorecard, but truly great deals on desktops specifically are rare on Amazon. Therefore, you are highly likely to waste at least a part of that GC by limiting your search to Amazon as the retailer and overpaying as a result.

Quick cheat sheet for integrated graphics:

Intel i3-2xxx, i5-2xxx = Intel HD 2000
Intel i7-2xxx = Intel HD 3000
Intel i5-3xxx (non-K) = Intel HD 2500
Intel i5-3xxxK, i7-3xxx, i7-3xxxK = Intel HD 4000

AMD A8-38xx = Radeon HD 6550D
AMD A8-5xxx = Radeon HD 7560D
AMD A10-5xxx = Radeon HD 7660D

If you plan on using the integrated graphics even for light gaming, I would not go lower than Intel HD 4000 or Radeon HD 7xxxD.

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#12

09-03-2012, 10:37 PM

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Quote from deelseaker

Harsh analogy laugh out loud

, but

Thanks for the cheat sheet. That's very helpful. So is the HD 4000 the equivalent of the Radeon HD 7560D? Also, since they're embedded, and pardon my ignorance, is it possible to add (upgrade) a separate, more powerful, video card? I guess that's what shnitz meant by crossfiring?

If there are no other better deals on desktops then I think I will keep a close eye out on the p7-1240 then since as I'd mentioned before, it was once at $500 a little over a month ago. In the mean time, please feel free to throw out any other systems that you think might fit my budget and use. I've noticed that a lot of people on here rave about the Dell XPS 8500 systems, but are any of those within my budget by any chance, even refurbished or scratch & dent on Dell Outlet?

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#13

09-04-2012, 04:57 PM

FAL

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Quote from IronMonkey

Newegg.com - iBUYPOWER AMD FX-4100 8GB 500GB AMD Radeon HD 7750 [newegg.com]
$650

Newegg.com - iBUYPOWERFX-8120(3.1GHz) 8GB 1TB HDDAMD HD 6850 [newegg.com]$750

Semi-DIY (Buy/Install Desktop+GPU+PSU) for better value
499.99 Dell Vostro 470 i5-3450, 4GB/500GB/$100 eGift Card $499 + Free Shipping - Slickdeals.net

99.99-129.99 HD 6850 or 7770 GPUMSI Radeon HD 7770 R7770-PMD1GD5 1GB DDR5 Video Card $95AR @Newegg - Slickdeals.net

24.99 CORSAIR CX430 430W PFC [newegg.com] PSU

Last edited by FAL; 09-04-2012 at 05:14 PM..

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#14

09-04-2012, 09:19 PM

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Quote from FAL

Thanks for the recommendations, but I'm a little skeptical about the iBUYPOWER systems as I've never really heard of them before and those two appear to be designed gaming, but I'm only a light gamer at best so it might be overkill for me. Also, they appear to lack USB 3.0, which is a requirement for me. As for the Dell, I would prefer something that is complete with all the desired specs and ready to go as opposed to having to upgrade that will drive up the cost somewhat and deal with rebates.

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#15

09-04-2012, 10:26 PM

shnitz

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Quote from IronMonkey

The name on the outside of the case is meaningless. Whether you get yourself an ibuypower, a Dell, an HP, or hell, a Mac, there is a limited place that the components can come from. It doesn't matter what brand computer you have, the processor is from Intel (or AMD), and a model is a model. If you get an i5-2500 processor, it's exactly the same whether it went to any of the above companies. Similarly, the other components all came from a big name:
-Same hard drive from Western Digital, Seagate, Toshiba, Samsung, or Hitachi
-Same motherboard from Foxconn, Asus, Gigabyte, etc.
-Same memory from the various manufacturers, but honestly 95% chance it came from a Samsung factory in the first place
All a computer company does is assemble the computer, which honestly is farking simple. Watch Youtube videos, it's about as plug as play as it gets. And gaming vs. not gaming, again, a computer is just a collection of its parts. You can call it gaming, or multimedia, or home theater PC, or whatever the hell you want, a computer with an i7 processor is a computer with an i7 processor, any way you cut it. The difference between a "gaming" computer and a "multimedia" computer is just however the computer companies are trying to market to unknowledgeable people like you. The OEM makers like Dell and HP just have custom computer cases built for them, because if you have a differently-shaped plastic housing on your tower, then you must obviously be building a different computer, right?

Honestly, you need to make a few decisions. If you want to save money, you need to man up and be willing to do some legwork. How much do you value your time, because you're unwilling to "deal with rebates" but you have been spending multiple days sitting here and wondering about computers, which is much more time intensive. Adding a graphics card is literally child's play, as is adding RAM, another hard drive (a little more intensive if you're adding an SSD, as you have to re-configure which is your boot drive, mirror your Windows install over to it, etc), or even adding a PCI card that gives you USB 3.0 compatibility. Go back to the drawing board, watch some Youtube videos, and read some articles. You're being a diva.

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