Mitsubishi 73" DLP 1080p HDTV for $999 at Dell.com

Quote from atifarif2001 : I dont know, had I known all this I would have obviously provided that info. You must be thick in the head or assume everyone works for geek squad like yourself. Im simply asking what is common reason for DLP's looking grainy?

One common reason for ANY tv looking grainy would be the source content and how it was connected to the tv.

Quote from atifarif2001 : I saw a DLP in a furniture store with a dvd on and it looked very grainy, anyone know whats up with that? I have been to a few best buys in my area and have yet to find a DLP demo unit.

Do you have any HHGregg stores near you?

If so, they usually have 2 or 3 DLP sets on display....be prepared to be disappointed though if you compare them to the LCD/Plasma sets unless you prioritize size over quality, or if you just cannot afford a quality tv at this time.
There are reasons why these tv's are twice the size,half the price, and 97% in less demand....and why ALL manufacturers dropped production of these tv's for consumers except for 1.

Quote from audiokingman : Do you have any HHGregg stores near you? If so, they usually have 2 or 3 DLP sets on display....be prepared to be disappointed though if you compare them to the LCD/Plasma sets unless you prioritize size over quality, or if you just cannot afford a quality tv at this time. There are reasons why these tv's are twice the size,half the price, and 97% in less demand....and why ALL manufacturers dropped production of these tv's for consumers except for 1.

no HHGregg.

Quote from ky151 : One common reason for ANY tv looking grainy would be the source content and how it was connected to the tv.

yup you can't judge any tv when a dvd is playing...get a blu ray in there

Quote from audiokingman : Do you have any HHGregg stores near you? If so, they usually have 2 or 3 DLP sets on display....be prepared to be disappointed though if you compare them to the LCD/Plasma sets unless you prioritize size over quality, or if you just cannot afford a quality tv at this time. There are reasons why these tv's are twice the size,half the price, and 97% in less demand....and why ALL manufacturers dropped production of these tv's for consumers except for 1.

if you do this, be aware that many retailers calibrate the more expensive sets to look better...so don't be surprised if the DLP doesn't look as good as the $3,000 lcd or led they have...just FYI

Quote from audiokingman : Do you have any HHGregg stores near you? If so, they usually have 2 or 3 DLP sets on display....be prepared to be disappointed though if you compare them to the LCD/Plasma sets unless you prioritize size over quality, or if you just cannot afford a quality tv at this time. There are reasons why these tv's are twice the size,half the price, and 97% in less demand....and why ALL manufacturers dropped production of these tv's for consumers except for 1.

Honestly, a properly adjusted DLP tends to have a better picture quality than a comparable sized LCD/LED display. Most stores tend to actually adjust them incorrectly intentionally to steer people towards the more expensive sets. The clerks at my local HH Gregg probably hate me -- because whenever I am there, I change the picture settings on the DLP's to where they SHOULD be set. The difference is quite noticeable.

Advantages to DLP:
1) Weight -- compared to a comparable sized plasma or LCD, the weight is usually quite a bit less (especially compared to plasma).

2) Blacks -- the blacks on a DLP are generally much darker than on an LCD/LED set.

3) Color accuracy -- generally better than LCD technology and MUCH better than most newer LED's. The color spectrum produced by an LED backlight is honestly pretty bad -- go look at a spectograph of one some time (they generally look like a slit graph with distinct lines for red/green/blue rather than being anywhere near full spectrum). Honestly, even fluorescent LCD backlight technology produces truer colors than LED does -- it just isn't as reliable, bright, or power efficient. DLP tends to be a very good compromise in this respect.

4) Price per square inch on a DLP cannot be beat.

5) Repairability -- if the panel on an LCD or Plasma dies, it's pretty much a lost cause. Even backlights are difficult to get repaired. On a DLP, replacing the bulb is trivial -- and decent 3rd party Mitsubishi replacement bulbs can be had via Amazon for less than $60 (I've used them and they work fine). Similarly, even replacing the DMD is doable by an end user with a bit of skill. Ditto for the color wheel. While you do have to replace the bulbs periodically (2-3 years on average), at least they CAN be maintained.

6) No burn in -- period. The micro-mirrors are constantly oscillating regardless of content. This makes them excellent for use as HTPC displays. LCD technology is generally fairly immune to burn-in as well -- although PVA/MVA panel types are susceptible to a memory effect similar to burn-in (which fortunately can usually be reversed by leaving a white image on the screen for a few hours). The newer plasma's are much less susceptible to burn-in than they used to be -- that said, I still see lots of them with Xbox menu burns and ones at stores with "ticker burn" at the bottom.

Split Decision:

1) Power consumption -- the bulbs often draw 200-250W. This is quite a bit higher than LED backlight based LCD panels. That said, it is still better than most fluorescent backlight LCD panels and WAY better than plasma. For comparison: Mitsubishi 73" DLP: 213W; Toshiba 65" fluorescent backlight LCD panel: 360W; LG 60" Plasma display: 460W; Sharp 70" LED backlight LCD panel: 97W. So, DLP is worse than LED but better that everything else. Honestly, good luck even FINDING the power consumption listed for most plasma displays. If you look at the specs pages, most of the larger plasma displays from Samsung, Panasonic, etc. tend to conveniently omit this bit of info.

Drawbacks:

1) Depth -- you can't wall mount them. That said, if you are planning on mounting a 73"+ display on your wall, I pity the wall. Also, things to consider when wall mounting: I have seen lots of people wall mount the set, only to realize they still need to have a cabinet for the cable/satellite box, BluRay/DVD player, etc. This means they often end up with a horrendous conglomeration of things to make it work. They also end up with hideous wires hanging from the set to the floor or over to the components (if you plan in advance and put cut-in's in the wall, this can be avoided -- but you have to plan for it). I have also seen people who mount TV's above the mantle of their fireplace -- DON'T DO IT if you ever plan to use the fireplace. I have seen several TV's with permanently discolored screens where the heat rising from the front of a fireplace has caused physical damage to the set.

2) Frequency -- you aren't going to get much over 120Hz out of a DLP. That said, this is still plenty for 3D.

3) DLP Rainbow effect -- generally only noticeable in a darkened room when you rapidly strobe your eyes across the image (and only by some people). The more sensitive your eyes are to flicker, the more this will bother you. If you are one of the people who perceive a noticeable 60Hz flicker from fluorescent lights, then you are more likely to notice the rainbow effect.

4) Brightness -- in a brightly lit room with lots of sun, DLP's are generally not as good as Plasma or LED backlight. That said, most TV watching is done in a living room that is NOT super brightly lit and the vast majority of "Prime Time" TV watching is in the evening when the room is darker. If your primary viewing goal is weekend football in a room with lots of windows, then DLP may not be your best choice.

5) Geometry -- screen linearity on LCD's/plasmas should be nearly perfect (unless the scaler IC is mis-adjusted). On a DLP, their may be subtle distortions due to the optical path from the bulb to the DMD to the screen. If the internal lenses are made properly and the set is properly aligned, this shouldn't be an issue. However, some of the slimmer DLP's occasionally aren't aligned as well as they should be. The deeper sets tend to have a more direct light path and less angular distortion between the top and bottom of the image -- unfortunately, everyone wants slim sets, which is not a good thing for image quality. Sadly, a lot of the best optical engineers have departed this industry in recent years -- and it shows. That said, even the slimmest DLP sets I have seen -- when properly aligned at the factory -- have nearly zero geometry issues, it's just that geometry issues are POSSIBLE with DLP.

On pure "specsmanship", DLP cannot compete with LCD, but specs and actual human perception are often two very different things.

I spent many years working for Philips/Magnavox's projection TV division and I have a very good eye for TV. I see (and get driven nuts by) image issues that most people overlook or take for granted. Overall, under typical home viewing conditions, with a good quality input signal, DLP's do provide the most aesthetically pleasing image to the human eye. Although the time-frame was years ago, pre-DLP, while I was at Philips, we did several focus group studies and while Sony always had better specs and tended to win the reviews based on those specs, at a 10' viewing distance, the participants would invariably pick our sets as having the better picture -- due to purely aesthetic image quality reasons. At 10' distance you don't WANT to be able to see the individual pixels -- you want edges to be smooth, except on things with fine lines (human hair for instance). There are lots of "tricks" that can be done to improve image quality as perceived by the human eye (edge enhancement, dynamic sharpness filters, dynamic contrast, de-macroblocking, peaking, etc.). Another big thing to look for is color reproduction -- especially flesh tones (no snickers please) and blues. Many LCD sets will have noticeable banding in their reproduction of the blue part of the spectrum (the sky for instance). Similarly, flesh tones will often end up looking just subtly "wrong" on LED based LCD panels. Another case in point would be green -- most TV viewers actually rate TV's as having a better picture when the green part of the spectrum is over-emphasized along certain spectral ranges (i.e. the grass on the football field may be brownish and the plants may be wilting, but the human brain generally will consider it more pleasing if it actually APPEARS green). So, while, yes, over-emphasizing the green may make someones olive green suit look greener than it should be in reality, the viewer doesn't notice this because you have no frame of reference (you don't actually KNOW what the color of the suit was to begin with) but your brain tells you that the grass and leaves SHOULD be green, so even though the image is not really accurate, you perceive it as being better. Also, just be aware, the image processing that goes on prior to the display can also vary greatly due to manufacturer (which is why two TV's from different manufacturers that use the EXACT same display, but with different electronics, may look completely different) -- this is why many of the low end sets are so much cheaper and where they fail compared to the high end brands.

Quote from mdburkey : Drawbacks: 1) Depth -- you can't wall mount them. That said, if you are planning on mounting a 73"+ display on your wall, I pity the wall. Also, things to consider when wall mounting: I have seen lots of people wall mount the set, only to realize they still need to have a cabinet for the cable/satellite box, BluRay/DVD player, etc. This means they often end up with a horrendous conglomeration of things to make it work. They also end up with hideous wires hanging from the set to the floor or over to the components (if you plan in advance and put cut-in's in the wall, this can be avoided -- but you have to plan for it). I have also seen people who mount TV's above the mantle of their fireplace -- DON'T DO IT if you ever plan to use the fireplace. I have seen several TV's with permanently discolored screens where the heat rising from the front of a fireplace has caused physical damage to the set. 2) Frequency -- you aren't going to get much over 120Hz out of a DLP. That said, this is still plenty for 3D. 3) DLP Rainbow effect -- generally only noticeable in a darkened room when you rapidly strobe your eyes across the image (and only by some people). The more sensitive your eyes are to flicker, the more this will bother you. If you are one of the people who perceive a noticeable 60Hz flicker from fluorescent lights, then you are more likely to notice the rainbow effect. 4) Brightness -- in a brightly lit room with lots of sun, DLP's are generally not as good as Plasma or LED backlight. That said, most TV watching is done in a living room that is NOT super brightly lit and the vast majority of "Prime Time" TV watching is in the evening when the room is darker. If your primary viewing goal is weekend football in a room with lots of windows, then DLP may not be your best choice. 5) Geometry -- screen linearity on LCD's/plasmas should be nearly perfect (unless the scaler IC is mis-adjusted). On a DLP, their may be subtle distortions due to the optical path from the bulb to the DMD to the screen. If the internal lenses are made properly and the set is properly aligned, this shouldn't be an issue. However, some of the slimmer DLP's occasionally aren't aligned as well as they should be. The deeper sets tend to have a more direct light path and less angular distortion between the top and bottom of the image -- unfortunately, everyone wants slim sets, which is not a good thing for image quality. Sadly, a lot of the best optical engineers have departed this industry in recent years -- and it shows. That said, even the slimmest DLP sets I have seen -- when properly aligned at the factory -- have nearly zero geometry issues, it's just that geometry issues are POSSIBLE with DLP.

Did you forget to include shadowing and viewing angle (both vertical and horizontal) limitations in your "Drawbacks" section?

Quote from audiokingman : Did you forget to include shadowing and viewing angle (both vertical and horizontal) limitations in your "Drawbacks" section?

do you agree lcd and led ALSO have viewing limitations? Anyone watching tv in a normal position (not sitting on the floor, or sharply off to the side, who would want to watch a giant tv like that?) sees a great picture. This happens with all tvs, stop acting like only DLP has that.

Quote from joer316 : do you agree lcd and led ALSO have viewing limitations? Anyone watching tv in a normal position (not sitting on the floor, or sharply off to the side, who would want to watch a giant tv like that?) sees a great picture. This happens with all tvs, stop acting like only DLP has that.

I've been meaning to do a video of my 73" dlp set showing that I have nearly 180 degree viewing side to side and can lay on the floor in front of it or stand on a coffee table in front of it and can see the image fine...just to shut that squeaky wheel up.

He looked at one in bestbuy for 5 minutes a few years ago, and bases all of his opinions on that 'analysis'.

Quote from mdburkey : Honestly, a properly adjusted DLP tends to have a better picture quality than a comparable sized LCD/LED display.

Thanks for taking the time to share your professional opinions. Way better information than the stuff we get from the guy who looked at one for 5 minutes three years ago in a store that had it miscalibrated so people would move to the more expensive sets.

The one nit I'd pick is about the bright room viewing. The matte screen on my mitsu 73" dlp is way better than the 60" sharp aquos lcd set we used to have in there and we have no problems watching anything during the day with plenty of sunlight coming through the windows.

Quote from Muckrak3r : I got the 73" C9 model 2 years ago. AMAZING tv. The picture quality is outstanding. I highly recommend this deal.

I've got the 73C9 as well. I wouldn't buy that specific model year again. There is way too much of an artifact issue, when watching a bluray, that has a lot of motion. E.g. There's a scene in the BBC Planet earth collection that shows an angry ocean; the white wash looks terrible.

Quote from atifarif2001 : I dont know, had I known all this I would have obviously provided that info. Im simply asking what is common reason for DLP's looking grainy?

There is no common reason, it could be many different things. I asked you all those questions so me or someone else here could give you an answer. If i had to guess why it was grainy, id say either you were standing to close or there wasn't a true HD signal hooked up.

Quote from nutz : There is no common reason, it could be many different things. I asked you all those questions so me or someone else here could give you an answer. If i had to guess why it was grainy, id say either you were standing to close or there wasn't a true HD signal hooked up.

okay, thanks

Quote from atifarif2001 : okay, thanks

No problem bud FYI I do have 2 friends who own these sets and the picture quality is fantastic.

Quote from audiokingman : Did you forget to include shadowing and viewing angle (both vertical and horizontal) limitations in your "Drawbacks" section?

The off angle viewing angle of most DLP's is actually BETTER than that of LCD. Most LCD panels -- especially the cheap ones -- have noticeable color and brightness shifts when viewed from greater than 35 degrees off center horizontally. Additionally, when viewed from an off center vertical angle, the color shifts on some LCD's can be absolutely horrendous -- to the point of near total color INVERSION in some cases.

If your LCD TV is based on PVA/MVA or IPS technology, then the off angle viewing will be at least reasonable. If it is based on TFT technology, it will be horrendous.

With DLP, you are basically shining a color image onto a coated screen. You will get changes in apparent brightness with off angle viewing due to the front of the TV. However, the colors will generally remain uniform, it is just the apparent brightness that changes.

To combat the off angle viewing problem, your older design projection TV's used an internal fresnel lens to focus the light to a uniform level for viewing, with a surface mounted lenticular lens designed to spread it out at different angles. If the DLP TV uses a decent lens design on it's surface, it can have a VERY good viewing angle (I do not know off hand what Mitsubishi does in their current DLP's -- so I can't make any judgment here). A good lens on the front also provides a nice matte finish and almost eliminates glare from any external light source.

Some of the best projection TV's ever made, pre-HD, were ones that were manufactured by Philips/Magnavox during the early-90's. These sets had a curved lenticular lens that actually protruded about 3 inches from the front. It made the sets look weird, but they had unbelievable contrast ratios and nearly perfect off angle viewing at up to about 60 degrees to either side.