92-year-old Verona man shoots intruder at home

Quote from Deusxmachina : I'm wondering if the cops were taking cover behind their police cruisers at all.

Why the need to speculate?
http://www.startribune.com/168131...ml?refer=y

Quote : Farris Nazzal, a 29-year-old musician staying at the motel, said he had been sleeping in a second-floor room when awakened by stomping outside on the walkway, then shouting: "Get on your knees now! Get on your knees now! Freeze! Freeze! Freeze!" Through his window, he saw police outside, guns drawn, at the room two doors down, Nazzal said. He dressed quickly as police banged at his door, telling him to get out of there, Nazzal said. He ran downstairs. Nazzal said he heard six or seven gunshots and from the first floor looked up to see a man lying on the balcony, six or seven officers around him.

Quote from paperboy05 : Where in the hell in this quote did you make mention of any sort of double standard?

The same place it says "I'm Outraged At The Police," I guess.

The original purpose of the article was to point out to the "just call the cops," "let the cops handle it," "go hide in the attic until the cops get there" people that just because you call the cops doesn't mean you should leave everything to the cops.

And then you wanted to get into more specifics of why you shouldn't leave everything to the cops while turning it all into "you just hate cops/cops never do anything wrong."

Quote from Deusxmachina : The same place it says "I'm Outraged At The Police," I guess. The original purpose of the article was to point out to the "just call the cops," "let the cops handle it," "go hide in the attic until the cops get there" people that just because you call the cops doesn't mean you should leave everything to the cops.

Then why not say this? Why leave it as some vague quote that implies cops will kills those that are held hostage?

Quote : And then you wanted to get into more specifics of why you shouldn't leave everything to the cops while turning it all into "you just hate cops/cops never do anything wrong."

Yes, clearly your quote was to counter the argument that the police should have helped him...

Quote from joer316 : THREE men failed to see that this guy was unarmed...aren't they trained to fire disabling shots to the leg or shoulder if they aren't sure about a situation?

Quote from paperboy05 : Then why not say this? Why leave it as some vague quote that implies cops will kills those that are held hostage?

Let's look at the very first post after my "vague post that implies cops will kill those that are held hostage.":

Quote from joer316 : great example of why it's better to just defend yourself with guns rather than rely on /wait for police

Looks like the very first post after my post got the gist.

Quote from paperboy05 : Linky? Not that much. Unless you have some sort of link showing their level of training includes hitting extremities on a running suspect.

not gonna go search, if no one else can chime in on the amount of training they have, I concede the point.

Quote : Then why highlight there were 3 cops?

cuz 3 is more than 1

Quote : It was a freak situation and a freak result.

I guess, just sucks for the hostage who got shot and his family

Quote : Do you know they could tell that? This happened in the early stages of the 4 hour standoff that ended at 5 am. It was clearly dark out. Are you able to always tell what a running person has in their hands in the middle of the night while there is random gunfire in your direction?

fair point, it was dark out...but I'm sure there were numerous flashlights focused on the doorway...they obviously wouldn't all be standing there in pitch blackness. I just thought police received training for extreme and unusual circumstances...if they don't this is a prime example of why they should. I mean you can't blame the hostage for not stopping and getting on the ground while someone was chasing him and shooting...if I was him I would probably hope that they cops would see I wasn't holding a weapon...and if the guy shooting followed me out of the doorway I would hope the cops would see that he is the "bad guy with a gun" and stop him.

Quote from paperboy05 : Not that much. Unless you have some sort of link showing their level of training includes hitting extremities on a running suspect.

Quote from joer316 : not gonna go search, if no one else can chime in on the amount of training they have, I concede the point.

No need to search. The most highly trained SWAT officers in the country, don't train to shoot extremities on a running suspect.

how do you know? What is the protocol for disabling, but not fatally injuring, a running suspect?

Quote from joer316 : cuz 3 is more than 1

But if the three can't communicate, then it's essentially just single officers in three separate situations.

Quote : I guess, just sucks for the hostage who got shot and his family

It does, then again a lot of things happen to suck for people.

Quote : fair point, it was dark out...but I'm sure there were numerous flashlights focused on the doorway...they obviously wouldn't all be standing there in pitch blackness. I just thought police received training for extreme and unusual circumstances...if they don't this is a prime example of why they should. I mean you can't blame the hostage for not stopping and getting on the ground while someone was chasing him and shooting...if I was him I would probably hope that they cops would see I wasn't holding a weapon...and if the guy shooting followed me out of the doorway I would hope the cops would see that he is the "bad guy with a gun" and stop him.

From the Star Tribune article it seems that this all happened as the officers got there. They were sent there because a 911 call was left open and the dispatcher heard commotion and the mention of a gun. It seems the cops were going in blind as to how many had weapons, what weapons there were, the number of individuals involved, and that this hostage situation wasn't known. I don't fault the guy running for not stopping, however, I also don't fault the officers for protecting themselves when so little was known and gunfire was going off. Who I do fault is the person that took the hostages. Hopefully MN has a law in the books where he can be charged with the murder of the guy who ran.

Quote from Deusxmachina : Let's look at the very first post after my "vague post that implies cops will kill those that are held hostage.": Looks like the very first post after my post got the gist.

This?

Quote from Deusxmachina : Guy running from attackers, likely doesn't even hear or comprehend what the cops are saying since he's running from attackers, cops obviously fear for their lives because there's one of him and only multiple of them, and the guy doesn't have a gun, and since he doesn't have a gun obviously could not be pointing a gun at the cops in a threatening manner. Yep, innocent dead guy's fault all the way. I'm wondering if the cops were taking cover behind their police cruisers at all. That'd be even more reason to be scared of one guy without a gun.

You mean where you blame the cops for not discussing what was going on and blaming them for killing him when he wasn't armed? Or was it the part where you speculated as to whether they were behind their cars?

Yep, clearly you just wanted to point out that the cops can't be there to protect people... or was it to point out a double standard... I'm not sure anymore.

Are we still on this? ok...

Quote from paperboy05 : You mean where you blame the cops for not discussing what was going on and blaming them for killing him when he wasn't armed? Or was it the part where you speculated as to whether they were behind their cars?

That was after you did the "bad cops rabble rabble rabble" as if cops are superhuman, never make mistakes, and never do anything bad.

Quote from paperboy05 : Yep, clearly you just wanted to point out that the cops can't be there to protect people... or was it to point out a double standard... I'm not sure anymore.

No surprise you're not sure since you kept moving the goal posts in different directions and then act like it's all one thing that you lump together under "bad cops rabble rabble rabble" and "Does the bad cop crap ever get old?"

Quote from joer316 : What is the protocol for disabling, but not fatally injuring, a running suspect?

Using something other than a firearm.

A hit good enough to immediately disable, is potentially lethal with a firearm. "Flesh wounds" to wing someone without killing them, are an invention of bad movies and TV shows.

Unfortunately, other than tackling them, Tasering them if they get close enough, or throwing a flashlight or something at them, a practical and effective device hasn't been developed yet. But even if it were, few agencies would deploy it against a subject possibly armed with a firearm.