How to retire at Age 35 by Consuming less

I think you miss the point that some people actually work because the love working and love what they do.

So what you're saying is, if my hypothetical wife and I each make 60k, we shouldn't spend a dime on anything but necessities until we're 35, so we can retire and again have just necessities for the rest of our lives?

Also, I think you missed a few points here. A conservative portfolio will not get you 7% on average. Even a somewhat risky portfolio is not likely to get you 7%.

Inflation is 3% (somewhere around there).

A wedding costs an average of around $25,000. Even a conservative one will cost you quite a bit.

Your $100k house is likely in a neighborhood that is not as nice as the $300k houses. Your kids now go to a terrible school, you live in a more dangerous neighborhood (where your kids are also more likely to fall in with a crowd that you probably don't want them to be a part of), and your neighbor sells crack. It also falls apart in 3 years and you have to replace the roof, and the dishwasher, and the plumbing, and it floods. Ok maybe all that is a slight exaggeration, but not by much.

In addition to your mortgage, repairing your house, furnishing your house, etc, you probably also need to buy a car, gas, fix your car, etc. Internet adds at least $50/month on average, cell phone is another $50. Food is $200/month if you never go out to eat and you eat cheap, but is likely closer to $300 or $400.

Let's do some math-

Food - $300/month * 12 = $3600/year
Internet/phone - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year
Gas - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year
House/car maintenance - $50/month * 12 = $600/year
Utilities - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year
Total - $7800.

Add your 5k for your kid, you're up to $12,800. This is a very, very conservative number.

Now add your mortgage payments, property taxes, college fund for your kid, house furnishing, clothes, gym membership if you need it, vacations, hobbies, new laptop/tv/etc every few years, non-grocery stuff (bathroom supplies, kitchen stuff, etc). Oh, and don't forget the Christmas presents for your relatives..

Now you're up to.. a lot more. OP, have you done this? Have you tried to live on 10k/year? This is extremely unrealistic. Even with the best of conditions, you'll spend more than that. Just to even get close to your number, you have to be ridiculously conservative.

I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to be conservative, save some money, and retire early. But trying to save up money for 5 years and retire? Good luck.

Please, this got locked in The Lounge. Save the drama and delete this thread.

Quote from Jabbit : Please, this got locked in The Lounge. Save the drama and delete this thread.

This is discussion, not drama.

Quote from DWad : So what you're saying is, if my hypothetical wife and I each make 60k, we shouldn't spend a dime on anything but necessities until we're 35, so we can retire and again have just necessities for the rest of our lives? Also, I think you missed a few points here. A conservative portfolio will not get you 7% on average. Even a somewhat risky portfolio is not likely to get you 7%. Inflation is 3% (somewhere around there). A wedding costs an average of around $25,000. Even a conservative one will cost you quite a bit. Your $100k house is likely in a neighborhood that is not as nice as the $300k houses. Your kids now go to a terrible school, you live in a more dangerous neighborhood (where your kids are also more likely to fall in with a crowd that you probably don't want them to be a part of), and your neighbor sells crack. It also falls apart in 3 years and you have to replace the roof, and the dishwasher, and the plumbing, and it floods. Ok maybe all that is a slight exaggeration, but not by much. In addition to your mortgage, repairing your house, furnishing your house, etc, you probably also need to buy a car, gas, fix your car, etc. Internet adds at least $50/month on average, cell phone is another $50. Food is $200/month if you never go out to eat and you eat cheap, but is likely closer to $300 or $400. Let's do some math- Food - $300/month * 12 = $3600/year Internet/phone - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year Gas - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year House/car maintenance - $50/month * 12 = $600/year Utilities - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year Total - $7800. Add your 5k for your kid, you're up to $12,800. This is a very, very conservative number. Now add your mortgage payments, property taxes, college fund for your kid, house furnishing, clothes, gym membership if you need it, vacations, hobbies, new laptop/tv/etc every few years, non-grocery stuff (bathroom supplies, kitchen stuff, etc). Oh, and don't forget the Christmas presents for your relatives.. Now you're up to.. a lot more. OP, have you done this? Have you tried to live on 10k/year? This is extremely unrealistic. Even with the best of conditions, you'll spend more than that. Just to even get close to your number, you have to be ridiculously conservative. I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to be conservative, save some money, and retire early. But trying to save up money for 5 years and retire? Good luck.

I like how you think conservative means a minimum of a $25,000 Wedding.

I have been to a $0 wedding before. Volunteer Firefighter's wedding. Married in the Church and had a reception in the Fire Hall. Instead of a Hummer Limo (i guess mandatory nowadays) they drove around on the fire truck. Food was Pot luck from all the family members. Decorations were brought in and time spent decorating creatively by the bridesmaids.

Portfolio's can vary. 25 dividend paying stocks, bought on value, while having a solid foundation, can give your returns much greater then 10%. And they Grow over Time too!

Inflation only affects the average consumer.

If anything Inflation gets canceled out because your stock prices go up each year, as the prices on goods and services go up too.

Consumers depend on the grocery store for their wanted foods, like say ice cream. This ice cream's price is controlled by supply and demand for it, as well as expenture for it's creation, delivery, and profits the company desires or needs.

Quote from ViciousTide : I like how you think conservative means a minimum of a $25,000 Wedding. I have been to a $0 wedding before. Volunteer Firefighter's wedding. Married in the Church and had a reception in the Fire Hall. Instead of a Hummer Limo (i guess mandatory nowadays) they drove around on the fire truck. Food was Pot luck from all the family members. Decorations were brought in and time spent decorating creatively by the bridesmaids. Portfolio's can vary. 25 dividend paying stocks, bought on value, while having a solid foundation, can give your returns much greater then 10%. And they Grow over Time too! Inflation only affects the average consumer. If anything Inflation gets canceled out because your stock prices go up each year, as the prices on goods and services go up too. Consumers depend on the grocery store for their wanted foods, like say ice cream. This ice cream's price is controlled by supply and demand for it, as well as expenture for it's creation, delivery, and profits the company desires or needs.

First, I think you failed to meet many of the points he mentioned. No one "wants" to live like that. Also, no one wants to have to worry all the time if their investments will tank and then they'll need to go back to work as an unmarketable, inexperienced older person. I agree that with good asset allocation this is unlikely, but why not work, grow your wealth, live happily and do more while you can - then leave a legacy for your family. Make their early years better than yours were.

Second, the point I bolded was interesting. If it only affects the average consumer, that means it pretty much affects all (most) of us (being that most are average), right?

Quote from DWad : So what you're saying is, if my hypothetical wife and I each make 60k, we shouldn't spend a dime on anything but necessities until we're 35, so we can retire and again have just necessities for the rest of our lives? Also, I think you missed a few points here. A conservative portfolio will not get you 7% on average. Even a somewhat risky portfolio is not likely to get you 7%. Inflation is 3% (somewhere around there). A wedding costs an average of around $25,000. Even a conservative one will cost you quite a bit. Your $100k house is likely in a neighborhood that is not as nice as the $300k houses. Your kids now go to a terrible school, you live in a more dangerous neighborhood (where your kids are also more likely to fall in with a crowd that you probably don't want them to be a part of), and your neighbor sells crack. It also falls apart in 3 years and you have to replace the roof, and the dishwasher, and the plumbing, and it floods. Ok maybe all that is a slight exaggeration, but not by much. In addition to your mortgage, repairing your house, furnishing your house, etc, you probably also need to buy a car, gas, fix your car, etc. Internet adds at least $50/month on average, cell phone is another $50. Food is $200/month if you never go out to eat and you eat cheap, but is likely closer to $300 or $400. Let's do some math- Food - $300/month * 12 = $3600/year Internet/phone - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year Gas - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year House/car maintenance - $50/month * 12 = $600/year Utilities - $100/month * 12 = $1200/year Total - $7800. Add your 5k for your kid, you're up to $12,800. This is a very, very conservative number. Now add your mortgage payments, property taxes, college fund for your kid, house furnishing, clothes, gym membership if you need it, vacations, hobbies, new laptop/tv/etc every few years, non-grocery stuff (bathroom supplies, kitchen stuff, etc). Oh, and don't forget the Christmas presents for your relatives.. Now you're up to.. a lot more. OP, have you done this? Have you tried to live on 10k/year? This is extremely unrealistic. Even with the best of conditions, you'll spend more than that. Just to even get close to your number, you have to be ridiculously conservative. I'm not saying that it's not a good idea to be conservative, save some money, and retire early. But trying to save up money for 5 years and retire? Good luck.

Cracks Knuckles and here we Go:

1) Have you tried to make a small garden of vegetables? about 5 tomato plants, 5 potato plants, basil leafs, many various spices? / Person

It saves you about $30 on your grocery bill per month.

Next, Tuna isn't that expensive, Fish is very healthy for you and a lot cheaper then beef/ $10 steaks.

The Japanese eat Fish, Rice, and Vegetables all day every day. They are a lot thinner then Americans, and they have a full set of hair until they die.

2)$100k house gets you a crack neighborhood? Then you best move to a better neighborhood in less expensive areas of the nation. Oh wait, your tied down to your job.

Every lived in a $20k RV? Ever went Camping without spending money? Ever had a bon fire created without a match?

Our Ancestors lived without money and without Technology. Now we have vasts amounts of technology, but it costs a lot of money to buy and maintain.

Though a lot of technology is thrown away without a second thought of reusing it for some other purpose, or a thought about what resources, technology, and tools lie within.

Here's an Example Budget for one Person and way of Life to get you thinking beyond the consumer-worker-taxed-till-you-die mental trap.

Expenses/month:
Housing:
$400: Rental townhouse maybe, new carpet, full appliances, in rough neighborhood though wonderful neighbors who look out for each other, not one break in in the neighborhood for over 20 years, probably because theives are stealing from $300k communities.

Utilities:
$60 Gas
$35 Electricity: (maybe various discounts on Supply, Distrubution, and Generation)
Now 12 Solar panels with1mx0.5m dimensions with 12 used car batteries , can supply you with enough kw-hrs of electricity to run everything in a $300k household, as long as you live in a sunny area. (have learned from my own neighbors on how to do this. Just gathering used supplies, and waiting for Oil Companies and Policy Makers to allow Solar Panels to be massly manufactured at cheap prices.
$30 Interenet. (try owning modem instead of renting)
$20 Water, Trash, Sewage

Food:
$75 (Vegetable Garden per person helps, preferably mobile in 5 gal buckets, and preferably with automated sprinkler system that you created or found free on craigslist)
(Tuna, coupons, 20lb bag of rice $10. Chicken, Eggs, yogurt, fruit, etc.)

House Cleaning:
Use old towels/rags, even very old cloth from clothes.
$10.

Transportation:
$20 Bus. Try working from home and living within walking distance of Grocery Store.

Could take a train or rent a car for long term vacations/ moves if need be.

That leaves $10 per month for entertainment, which mostly is free, or nearly free.

The air we breathe, water, library, sun, warmth, flushing toilet, eye sight, beauty, walking, the ocean, exercise, tennis, the parks, hiking, our five senses, friends.

Income:

Passive (mostly growing dividends, some capital gains, rental properties, little royalties from developed apps, a little from various blogs)

You can choose not to work if it's greater then $625/month.
Ahh 40-50 hours a week back for freetime!
If you work longer and save more at 75% of your paycheck, then you can travel and live abroad long term.

Or I can choose to live like a king now and the rest of my life and love working

Now that this is in the Finance forum maybe the OP will answer the questions that he repeatedly refused to answer in the Lounge. Not likely but it is worth a shot.

Quote from Iaaaiws : Hey OP, I don't feel like reading back through the thread to see if it was already covered, but at what point of the timeline are you currently at in achieving this goal of being able to retire at 35? As in how old are you now, how much do you currently work, and what are your current expenses and income?

Quote from ViciousTide : I like how you think conservative means a minimum of a $25,000 Wedding.

Definitely never said that..[/QUOTE]

Quote from ViciousTide : I have been to a $0 wedding before. Volunteer Firefighter's wedding. Married in the Church and had a reception in the Fire Hall. Instead of a Hummer Limo (i guess mandatory nowadays) they drove around on the fire truck. Food was Pot luck from all the family members. Decorations were brought in and time spent decorating creatively by the bridesmaids.

Who's doing the legal part of the ceremony? We don't all have friends that can legally marry people. Also, saying that a pot luck is 'free' food is not quite accurate. All the people that make that food are paying for it. Considering that every wedding I've been to pays for my food, I think it's only fair to pay for the food for my guests. Also, transportation is not free. Even driving your own car means paying for gas, and putting more miles on your car. Might even need to pick up friends/relatives from out of state at the airport.

Unfortunately, I don't have a fire hall to use as a reception hall, and my tiny house doesn't have much of a back yard either, so I'm gonna end up spending money on the location.

Quote from ViciousTide : Portfolio's can vary. 25 dividend paying stocks, bought on value, while having a solid foundation, can give your returns much greater then 10%. And they Grow over Time too!

You can't have it both ways. An AVERAGE risky portfolio can get you maybe 7%, at best. A conservative portfolio will get you closer to 3 or 4%. Yes, you could get returns of 10+%, but you could also lose money. If you're sticking to averages though, don't expect 7% for a conservative portfolio, because that won't happen.

Quote from ViciousTide : Inflation only affects the average consumer.

Inflation affects anyone that tries to spend money on anything. Which is everyone that reads this forum.

Quote from ViciousTide : If anything Inflation gets canceled out because your stock prices go up each year, as the prices on goods and services go up too.

Inflation doesn't get 'canceled out'. If your stock goes up 7% each year (which your conservative portfolio won't) and inflation is 3%, that means you're only getting a 4% return. An average conservative portfolio MIGHT keep up with inflation, or barely get ahead.

Quote from ViciousTide : Consumers depend on the grocery store for their wanted foods, like say ice cream. This ice cream's price is controlled by supply and demand for it, as well as expenture for it's creation, delivery, and profits the company desires or needs.

Thank you for the economy lesson.. how is that relevant though?

Next post:

Quote from ViciousTide : 1) Have you tried to make a small garden of vegetables? about 5 tomato plants, 5 potato plants, basil leafs, many various spices? / Person It saves you about $30 on your grocery bill per month.

Ok, save $30/month if you have the time for that. Still gotta pay for the seeds, gardening supplies, etc. But I'll give you $30/month off your grocery bill.

Quote from ViciousTide : Next, Tuna isn't that expensive, Fish is very healthy for you and a lot cheaper then beef/ $10 steaks.

Actually, tuna is generally more expensive than chicken, which is what I usually eat. Experts also recommend not eating too much tuna (I think 2 or 3 cans/week) because of mercury levels. Either way, my $2/pound chicken is pretty cheap.

Quote from ViciousTide : The Japanese eat Fish, Rice, and Vegetables all day every day. They are a lot thinner then Americans, and they have a full set of hair until they die.

Ever seen a sumo wrestler? Not all Japanese people are skinny, but one reason Americans are larger is because we tend to eat more salt and sugar. A healthy diet will save you money on food and medical bills, but every once in awhile it's nice to have some ice cream or some shrimp or something.

Quote from ViciousTide : 2)$100k house gets you a crack neighborhood? Then you best move to a better neighborhood in less expensive areas of the nation. Oh wait, your tied down to your job.

I'm not 'tied to my job', but I like living in a place where I have family/friends relatively close by. If I want to move, I need to find a new job, pay more for moving, and pay more for transportation to see my friends/family. Not sure how you expect me to not be tied to a job, considering that your example involves HAVING A JOB to save for retirement.

I could move to Kansas, it's probably cheap to live there. Then again, I'll pay more for internet, and the grocery store will be 16 miles away, which will put more miles on my car and cost me more gas money. And it will take up more of my time. I don't think $100k will get me a crack neighborhood, but it won't get me anywhere nice. What about my point about getting my kids into a good school? Or did you forget that one?

Quote from ViciousTide : Every lived in a $20k RV? Ever went Camping without spending money? Ever had a bon fire created without a match?

Nope, have you? Is this 20k on top of my 100k house? Or am I living in an RV with my wife and kid? Living in an RV will be tough, because I won't have space for my garden. And my kid won't be able to have friends over. And.. I gotta park that sucker somewhere, right? That costs money too. Good thing I'll have super-nice RV neighbors. Who doesn't love a mullet?

Quote from ViciousTide : Our Ancestors lived without money and without Technology. Now we have vasts amounts of technology, but it costs a lot of money to buy and maintain.

Our ancestors lived half as long without technology. You can live without money, but that means you'll NEVER have a TV, or THE INTERNET (which you use, btw), or anything other than a fire to cook with. Too bad you don't have condoms, good luck with your plan of just having one kid. Oh, and good luck with getting a fever, because there's a decent chance that it will kill you.

Quote from ViciousTide : Though a lot of technology is thrown away without a second thought of reusing it for some other purpose, or a thought about what resources, technology, and tools lie within.

Can you give us an example? I'm all about recycling and conservation, but just saying that 'people waste stuff' isn't really useful information.

Quote from ViciousTide : Here's an Example Budget for one Person and way of Life to get you thinking beyond the consumer-worker-taxed-till-you-die mental trap. Expenses/month: Housing: $400: Rental townhouse maybe, new carpet, full appliances, in rough neighborhood though wonderful neighbors who look out for each other, not one break in in the neighborhood for over 20 years, probably because theives are stealing from $300k communities.

Townhouse that lets you have your garden? Good luck. Can you find us a listing on a rental site for a $400/month townhouse that you could live in comfortably with your wife and child, that is reasonably close to a bus, stores, and a good school? And make sure it's got that new carpet .

Nobody will break into your house because you have nothing of value, but I'm sure that the higher crime rates won't bother you at all. Hope you don't mind gunshots in the middle of the night.

Quote from ViciousTide : Utilities: $60 Gas $35 Electricity: (maybe various discounts on Supply, Distrubution, and Generation) Now 12 Solar panels with1mx0.5m dimensions with 12 used car batteries , can supply you with enough kw-hrs of electricity to run everything in a $300k household, as long as you live in a sunny area. (have learned from my own neighbors on how to do this. Just gathering used supplies, and waiting for Oil Companies and Policy Makers to allow Solar Panels to be massly manufactured at cheap prices. $30 Interenet. (try owning modem instead of renting) $20 Water, Trash, Sewage

So you're going $5/month less on utilities. Ok fine, I'll give you that.
Where are you getting these solar panels, a junk yard? Those things aren't cheap. If you've learned how to do this, please share with us how to do it, cost of supplies, and how much energy you generate for yourself each month. Also, waiting for policy makers to allow cheap manufacturing? I'm pretty sure nobody is stopping China from selling us cheap stuff. Regardless, your $400/month townhouse might not let you put solar panels on their roof, and your $100k house won't have a roof large enough for a large array of solar panels.

$30/month internet is very unlikely. Yes, you can get the super-slow speed for a little cheaper, but owning your own modem also means paying for your own modem. That's also not free. Generally speaking, though, broadband internet is going to cost you more than $30/month. Especially if you move somewhere rural, internet will cost you even more.

Quote from ViciousTide : Food: $75 (Vegetable Garden per person helps, preferably mobile in 5 gal buckets, and preferably with automated sprinkler system that you created or found free on craigslist) (Tuna, coupons, 20lb bag of rice $10. Chicken, Eggs, yogurt, fruit, etc.)

Drive to pick up sprinkler system you got incredibly lucky to find on craigslist for free - pay for gas. 5 gallon buckets? Pay for those.
There is a farmer's market with cheap produce near my apartment, and a few grocery store. PLEASE tell me how to spend $75/month on food. A can of tuna is about 80 cents/can on sale. If I ate 1 can of tuna every day (reasonable if I'm not eating other kinds of meat), that's $48/month on tuna alone for myself and my hypothetical wife. $10/month on rice and we're up to $58/month. Maybe we both eat yogurt for breakfast every day. One yogurt cup is about 30 cents on a very good sale. 30 days * 2 yogurts * $.30 = $18. Now we're up to $76. That's assuming that I eat 1 can of tuna, some rice, whatever vegetables I want from my garden, and a cup of yogurt EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR A MONTH. That means never going out to eat, eating the same thing every day, and never adding any additional flavoring. That's also assuming I don't drink water, and I get dysentery from not eating fruit. Maybe I'll have an apple each day as a snack. My tiny yard doesn't have room for an apple tree, so let's add $.50/day for 2 apples (for the hypothetical wife and myself). Add another $15 on to the $76 from before, and we just broke $100!

So with the world's most boring diet (which is probably incredibly unhealthy from all the mercury and lack of variety), we can get close to $100/month, if we buy everything when it's on sale, none of the food ever goes bad, and we drink only water.

Quote from ViciousTide : House Cleaning: Use old towels/rags, even very old cloth from clothes. $10. Transportation: $20 Bus. Try working from home and living within walking distance of Grocery Store.

Ok, $10 for house cleaning. Assuming you already bought a vacuum. As for working from home, most jobs don't allow you to work from home, and if you're lucky enough to live that close to a grocery store, do you really want to walk to the grocery store every 3 days?

Quote from ViciousTide : Could take a train or rent a car for long term vacations/ moves if need be.

Trains are most definitely not free, but if I want to visit my relatives in California (I live on the east cost), then a train might take a little too long. Car rentals? Definitely also not free.

Quote from ViciousTide : That leaves $10 per month for entertainment, which mostly is free, or nearly free.

That means that you NEVER go out to dinner, or go see a movie, or go to a museum, or an amusement park. You can't play sports that require driving to a court/field, you can't afford a nice tennis racquet, you can't pay for court time for volleyball. You can't afford your team's jersey, you can't afford to play in tournaments, you can't go to the beach.. yes, you can do $10/month for entertainment, but your hypothetical wife needs to be crazy as well.

Quote from ViciousTide : The air we breathe, water, library, sun, warmth, flushing toilet, eye sight, beauty, walking, the ocean, exercise, tennis, the parks, hiking, our five senses, friends.

Oh, eye sight. Let's not forget about the cost of glasses/contacts, co-pays for check-ups, beach passes if you want to go to a decent beach, tennis racquet/tennis balls and court time if there's no public court near you. Also, sight is one of the 5 senses, no need to repeat yourself.

Quote from ViciousTide : Income: Passive (mostly growing dividends, some capital gains, rental properties, little royalties from developed apps, a little from various blogs) You can choose not to work if it's greater then $625/month. Ahh 40-50 hours a week back for freetime! If you work longer and save more at 75% of your paycheck, then you can travel and live abroad long term.

How are you developing these apps? Only using free software? I'm assuming you just FOUND a decent phone to test your apps on? How much money do YOU make from blogs, OP? Be honest. It's incredibly rare for people to make any reasonable amount of money from blogs.

Rental properties??? How are you paying for those? Is that one of your 'conservative' investments? Rental properties also take a lot of time. You have to buy the property, set up contracts, find tenants, keep on top of them for payments, do maintenance, then put in new carpet and paint when a tenant moves out. You can make money with rental properties if you're smart, but they require time and energy, and a lot of up-front capital.

Say you invest $200,000 in an index fund. An index fund is not a conservative investment. At 7%, you'll make 14k/year, not accounting for inflation. Not sure how you're gonna live on that, but good luck (is your wife doing the same thing? Or does she work while you sit around at home all day and do nothing because you can't afford to do anything).

The best way to retire early is to find a job that you like, that you're very good at. Work hard at work, study up on your own time, and get yourself promoted up as high as possible. If you can make $100k/year by age 30, then save $65k/year for the next 10 years, then you can add $650k to your previous savings, and retire at 40. But most people don't make 100k/year (even if they work hard), and most people want to enjoy their salary, and enjoy their job.

You said so much about not working, but it's definitely more important to like your job. Instead of sitting around at home alone (your friends/wife are at work, your daughter is at school, remember?) I would much rather go to work and see my friends, enjoy working with my coworkers, and feel content with my life.

I could save hard and retire at 40 if I'm really lucky. Or, I could ENJOY my life, eat good food, go out with my friends, take vacations, buy my hypothetical wife hypothetical pretty things that will make her happy, keep up with the latest technology (I'm an IT geek), play sports, be active, and try new things, and retire at 50 instead.

You are missing one huge budget issue. And, not coincidently, the budget item that leads to greatest number of bankruptcy filings in the US.

Healthcare

Quote from norcaltransplan : You are missing one huge budget issue. And, not coincidently, the budget item that leads to greatest number of bankruptcy filings in the US. Healthcare

My point is to increase your Savings Rate, by reducing your expenses and increasing your incomes, preferably passive.

This yields LOTS OF CASH!

Meaning you can pay less for Healthcare, because you can get higher deductible insurance costs.

Unless you plan on getting an MRI every time you see the doctor... you save more money compared to paying $$400/mth-1200/mth-$50,000/ mth on Health Care insurance plans.

Quote from DWad : Who's doing the legal part of the ceremony? We don't all have friends that can legally marry people. Also, saying that a pot luck is 'free' food is not quite accurate. All the people that make that food are paying for it. Considering that every wedding I've been to pays for my food, I think it's only fair to pay for the food for my guests. Also, transportation is not free. Even driving your own car means paying for gas, and putting more miles on your car. Might even need to pick up friends/relatives from out of state at the airport. Unfortunately, I don't have a fire hall to use as a reception hall, and my tiny house doesn't have much of a back yard either, so I'm gonna end up spending money on the location. You can't have it both ways. An AVERAGE risky portfolio can get you maybe 7%, at best. A conservative portfolio will get you closer to 3 or 4%. Yes, you could get returns of 10+%, but you could also lose money. If you're sticking to averages though, don't expect 7% for a conservative portfolio, because that won't happen. Inflation affects anyone that tries to spend money on anything. Which is everyone that reads this forum. Inflation doesn't get 'canceled out'. If your stock goes up 7% each year (which your conservative portfolio won't) and inflation is 3%, that means you're only getting a 4% return. An average conservative portfolio MIGHT keep up with inflation, or barely get ahead. Thank you for the economy lesson.. how is that relevant though? Next post: Ok, save $30/month if you have the time for that. Still gotta pay for the seeds, gardening supplies, etc. But I'll give you $30/month off your grocery bill. Actually, tuna is generally more expensive than chicken, which is what I usually eat. Experts also recommend not eating too much tuna (I think 2 or 3 cans/week) because of mercury levels. Either way, my $2/pound chicken is pretty cheap. Ever seen a sumo wrestler? Not all Japanese people are skinny, but one reason Americans are larger is because we tend to eat more salt and sugar. A healthy diet will save you money on food and medical bills, but every once in awhile it's nice to have some ice cream or some shrimp or something. I'm not 'tied to my job', but I like living in a place where I have family/friends relatively close by. If I want to move, I need to find a new job, pay more for moving, and pay more for transportation to see my friends/family. Not sure how you expect me to not be tied to a job, considering that your example involves HAVING A JOB to save for retirement. I could move to Kansas, it's probably cheap to live there. Then again, I'll pay more for internet, and the grocery store will be 16 miles away, which will put more miles on my car and cost me more gas money. And it will take up more of my time. I don't think $100k will get me a crack neighborhood, but it won't get me anywhere nice. What about my point about getting my kids into a good school? Or did you forget that one? Nope, have you? Is this 20k on top of my 100k house? Or am I living in an RV with my wife and kid? Living in an RV will be tough, because I won't have space for my garden. And my kid won't be able to have friends over. And.. I gotta park that sucker somewhere, right? That costs money too. Good thing I'll have super-nice RV neighbors. Who doesn't love a mullet? Our ancestors lived half as long without technology. You can live without money, but that means you'll NEVER have a TV, or THE INTERNET (which you use, btw), or anything other than a fire to cook with. Too bad you don't have condoms, good luck with your plan of just having one kid. Oh, and good luck with getting a fever, because there's a decent chance that it will kill you. Can you give us an example? I'm all about recycling and conservation, but just saying that 'people waste stuff' isn't really useful information. Townhouse that lets you have your garden? Good luck. Can you find us a listing on a rental site for a $400/month townhouse that you could live in comfortably with your wife and child, that is reasonably close to a bus, stores, and a good school? And make sure it's got that new carpet . Nobody will break into your house because you have nothing of value, but I'm sure that the higher crime rates won't bother you at all. Hope you don't mind gunshots in the middle of the night. So you're going $5/month less on utilities. Ok fine, I'll give you that. Where are you getting these solar panels, a junk yard? Those things aren't cheap. If you've learned how to do this, please share with us how to do it, cost of supplies, and how much energy you generate for yourself each month. Also, waiting for policy makers to allow cheap manufacturing? I'm pretty sure nobody is stopping China from selling us cheap stuff. Regardless, your $400/month townhouse might not let you put solar panels on their roof, and your $100k house won't have a roof large enough for a large array of solar panels. $30/month internet is very unlikely. Yes, you can get the super-slow speed for a little cheaper, but owning your own modem also means paying for your own modem. That's also not free. Generally speaking, though, broadband internet is going to cost you more than $30/month. Especially if you move somewhere rural, internet will cost you even more. Drive to pick up sprinkler system you got incredibly lucky to find on craigslist for free - pay for gas. 5 gallon buckets? Pay for those. There is a farmer's market with cheap produce near my apartment, and a few grocery store. PLEASE tell me how to spend $75/month on food. A can of tuna is about 80 cents/can on sale. If I ate 1 can of tuna every day (reasonable if I'm not eating other kinds of meat), that's $48/month on tuna alone for myself and my hypothetical wife. $10/month on rice and we're up to $58/month. Maybe we both eat yogurt for breakfast every day. One yogurt cup is about 30 cents on a very good sale. 30 days * 2 yogurts * $.30 = $18. Now we're up to $76. That's assuming that I eat 1 can of tuna, some rice, whatever vegetables I want from my garden, and a cup of yogurt EVERY SINGLE DAY FOR A MONTH. That means never going out to eat, eating the same thing every day, and never adding any additional flavoring. That's also assuming I don't drink water, and I get dysentery from not eating fruit. Maybe I'll have an apple each day as a snack. My tiny yard doesn't have room for an apple tree, so let's add $.50/day for 2 apples (for the hypothetical wife and myself). Add another $15 on to the $76 from before, and we just broke $100! So with the world's most boring diet (which is probably incredibly unhealthy from all the mercury and lack of variety), we can get close to $100/month, if we buy everything when it's on sale, none of the food ever goes bad, and we drink only water. Ok, $10 for house cleaning. Assuming you already bought a vacuum. As for working from home, most jobs don't allow you to work from home, and if you're lucky enough to live that close to a grocery store, do you really want to walk to the grocery store every 3 days? Trains are most definitely not free, but if I want to visit my relatives in California (I live on the east cost), then a train might take a little too long. Car rentals? Definitely also not free. That means that you NEVER go out to dinner, or go see a movie, or go to a museum, or an amusement park. You can't play sports that require driving to a court/field, you can't afford a nice tennis racquet, you can't pay for court time for volleyball. You can't afford your team's jersey, you can't afford to play in tournaments, you can't go to the beach.. yes, you can do $10/month for entertainment, but your hypothetical wife needs to be crazy as well. Oh, eye sight. Let's not forget about the cost of glasses/contacts, co-pays for check-ups, beach passes if you want to go to a decent beach, tennis racquet/tennis balls and court time if there's no public court near you. Also, sight is one of the 5 senses, no need to repeat yourself. How are you developing these apps? Only using free software? I'm assuming you just FOUND a decent phone to test your apps on? How much money do YOU make from blogs, OP? Be honest. It's incredibly rare for people to make any reasonable amount of money from blogs. Rental properties??? How are you paying for those? Is that one of your 'conservative' investments? Rental properties also take a lot of time. You have to buy the property, set up contracts, find tenants, keep on top of them for payments, do maintenance, then put in new carpet and paint when a tenant moves out. You can make money with rental properties if you're smart, but they require time and energy, and a lot of up-front capital. Say you invest $200,000 in an index fund. An index fund is not a conservative investment. At 7%, you'll make 14k/year, not accounting for inflation. Not sure how you're gonna live on that, but good luck (is your wife doing the same thing? Or does she work while you sit around at home all day and do nothing because you can't afford to do anything). The best way to retire early is to find a job that you like, that you're very good at. Work hard at work, study up on your own time, and get yourself promoted up as high as possible. If you can make $100k/year by age 30, then save $65k/year for the next 10 years, then you can add $650k to your previous savings, and retire at 40. But most people don't make 100k/year (even if they work hard), and most people want to enjoy their salary, and enjoy their job. You said so much about not working, but it's definitely more important to like your job. Instead of sitting around at home alone (your friends/wife are at work, your daughter is at school, remember?) I would much rather go to work and see my friends, enjoy working with my coworkers, and feel content with my life. I could save hard and retire at 40 if I'm really lucky. Or, I could ENJOY my life, eat good food, go out with my friends, take vacations, buy my hypothetical wife hypothetical pretty things that will make her happy, keep up with the latest technology (I'm an IT geek), play sports, be active, and try new things, and retire at 50 instead.

Good points. Just remember everytime you "pay" for something you are sacrificing Time to Earn the money to "pay" for that.

If your savings Rate per year is 50%-75%, because you live frugally and happily, Then you are earning more of your TIME from not having to work.

If your savings Rate is 10% to -50% because you are paying for everything that looks good to you, and makes you happier now. Then Yes, you could live this way and maybe retire one day when you are 65+ and hopefully at the top of the Pyramid of your Company.

But there is also a 50% chance you will die from cancer/heart attack/ etc. before your 65. But you borrowed money to "enjoy life now" and Worked 50 hours per week every year at taking orders from someone or some clients.


There are millions of things you can do that doesn't require spending money. Most Tools are built with gathering resources and using time and energy to build them to reduce their use of TIME and ENERGY.

When enough Tools are built, you can retire extremely early living a simple and pleasurable lifestyle especially if you don't need TV to be happy.

Same Happiness was occuring (for free) with Scotts during Wedding festivals where the priest would marry them, and in a time where it cost no fees to be married officially.

Villages would come together, entertain each other, rejoice, and socialize each and every night.

Now everyone is too busy working or consuming or fearing to share with their neighbors until they live in $300k homes in tight nit fenced communities that keep out the poor and disdain those that want to explore the free forest, or build the solar panels on their roofs, or burn a fire in their backyards.

And by the way, because i am retired at 35, doesn't mean i don't do anything all day...

I can:

Go to college lectures after approval from the teachers that i have time to get to know.
Grow a Garden with free seeds, pots, buckets, and soils thrown out by your grocery stores.
Find solar panels that where considered not perfect by CEO Corporates.
Read 5-10 books a week. Especially Textbooks.
Do Problems from Calculus to MicroBiology.

Test and pass exams like because i have all this FREE TIME to study again...Real Estate Agent, Professional Engineering, Law Board, Medical School, etc.


I have time to educate my own children, have fun with my own children playing in the parks, making bows from trees, forging stone from rocks, making glass from furnaces built by hand.

Time riding horses, feeding horses, even making extra Profits from giving Horse Riding lessons if you desire too..

All these hobbies can result in making money, though you love to do them, and now don't need the money as much, because you live a less consumer-worker demanding lifestyle.