I can see the point you (and OP) are trying to make but honestly do you think your 3rd party choice has a chance to win. None of the 3rd party candidates are included in the debates or have any amount of funding to run a decent campaign.
I'm not thrilled about my choices but they are Obama or Romney. One of these two men will be the next president.
I do. If people such as yourself decide they've had enough and vote their conscience. Vote for the right candidate, not the "best" establishment/collectivist candidate.
Gary Johnson should be in the debates, any legit candidate should be. Gary Johnson is already on 47 state ballots, even though the GOP is trying their best to have him excluded/removed.
Lack of wall street funding should NEVER exclude someone from running for President.
If you and many many others continue thinking that way, then you will be correct.
If you don't exercise your freedoms, you will lose them. Your choices are being limited, directly and indirectly, people need to realize this and overcome it.
The right choice is never the easiest choice.
How many registered Independents are there in this country (couldn't find a decent source in my brief search)? I imagine it is pretty close to 1/3 of all registered voters and I would argue that more people in this country have common ground with Johnson then either Obama or Romney.
40% identified themselves as Independent, 31% Dem, 27% Repub. Yet we only get to choose between the Dems and Repubs? If you don't like your choices, expand your pool to choose from and let others know they CAN do so as well.
Do you even know what the NDAA is? Go google it before you start throwing that initialism around. What you're objecting to is 1 clause of the NDAA, not the entire NDAA.
I do. I don't care if it was one sentence of a quadrillion sentences, it takes away our freedoms and allows government to indefinitely detain American citizens without due process. Even if the rest of the bill ended the Fed, I wouldn't vote for it nor support it. It takes away our rights. The bill should not have passed and anyone who voted for or signed it is responsible.
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Who of the two would potentially do the most damage to America in the next four years? Be honest now.
Use the next four years to work to nominate and elect Ron Paul or some other similar candidate if that is your goal, but at this point in time use your vote to elect the person who would do the least damage for your next guy to have to repair.
What I honestly think is Obama is a known evil. I know just how bad he will be.
My estimate of Romney is that he would likely be better. However, I do not know what he will do with the power of the presidency. The reality is that the position has gained more and more power over time. Power it was never meant to have. I feel like Romney could potentially abuse the presidential power even worse than Obama. You put a liberal in charge of unlimited drone firepower, and you get terrible results and the death of many innocents. You put someone in control whose advisors actually believe the terrorist will either fight us at home or abroad unlimited drone firepower, and I have no idea what he will do. I don't know how much worse the endless wars will get under Romney. I don't know how many more security measures we will have at the TSA. I don't know how much better or worse the deficit will be and how much the debt will grow. Obama will be bad, but I can take a good guess at how bad. Romney is an unknown quantity. I'd give him a 60% chance of being less bad than Obama as it comes to debt, spending, endless wars, and loss of civil liberties. In fact, Romney might appoint a justice MORE damaging to civil liberties than Obama.
I cannot in good conscience support the downward spiral.
Someone like you (or you) will make the same argument next year. _____ would destroy the US you have to vote for ____ so that the damage is less bad. Fix things in four more years. Kick the can down the road. We have to stop this.
I cannot in good conscience support the downward spiral.
Someone like you (or you) will make the same argument next election. _____ would destroy the US you have to vote for ____ so that the damage is less bad. Fix things in four more years. Kick the can down the road. We have to stop this.
exactly. Then he'll probably change his username to "noromney"
Do you believe in the extra-judicial killing of suspected criminals? What about suspected terrorists?
I personally do not have a problem with targeting killings of suspected terrorists. I think there's a bar that needs to be met but I don't think you need to wait for a guy to kill an American soldier when you have solid intel that says how it's going to go. That's war, it's the very essence of war.
I certainly understand the willingness to question whether that bar is being met in anything resembling a fashion you or I could agree with.
While everyone is bickering about minor disagreements on just how far the government should intrude into our lives, it's important to look at the bipartisan supported policies. Indefinite deficit spending, bailouts, and drone wars. That's what you are voting for.
I think it's more instructive to look at the differences and I happen to feel very strongly about them. A Romney presidency will include aggressive action against marijuana dispensaries which I think is about as hideous an aggression against states' rights as can be imagined. It will also mean SC justices that support ultra-aggressive government intrusion into peoples' personal choices. Sorry, they made their bed and I will NEVER NEVER NEVER support anyone that would put someone on the bench that would vote against Lawrence v. Texas. Gay sex in the privacy of your own home on your own property was F@#$%# ILLEGAL IN 13 STATES 9 YEARS AGO.
No. Hell no. F#$^ no. Never ever.
And I happen to want single payer. So that's nice.
You put someone in control whose advisors actually believe the terrorist will either fight us at home or abroad unlimited drone firepower, and I have no idea what he will do. I don't know how much worse the endless wars will get under Romney.
Of course we know. Look at his national security advisors, 80% of which are ultra neocons. You don't know how much worse? Uhhh, just look at what they were saying over the last couple years. We would have had soldiers in Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. Man, what a good time that would have been huh?
I don't know how much better or worse the deficit will be and how much the debt will grow.
Of course we know. He's slashing taxes on the rich and raising taxes on everyone else but it won't be enough so there's going to be increased deficits in order to do it. His own white papers say exactly that. There's nothing hidden (unless you like want him to actually say it out loud).
Reagan drastically increased the size of government. Bush and Bush drastically increased the size of government. Romney says he'll cut it but gives exactly zero examples other than the laughable PBS/Planned Parenthood examples. If you believe Romney can do what Reagan/Bush/Bush didn't, well, you're not the person I think you are.
Oh, and of course the massive increase in defense spending. That's always a big plus for deficit hawks. Don't worry. It probably won't be more than another trillion worth of weapons systems and boats over 10 years. Keep America strong you dirty hippie!
Obama will be bad, but I can take a good guess at how bad. Romney is an unknown quantity. I'd give him a 60% chance of being less bad than Obama as it comes to debt, spending, endless wars, and loss of civil liberties. In fact, Romney might appoint a justice MORE damaging to civil liberties than Obama.
I don't think there's any question that the SC justice would be an utter disaster for liberty, unless you're incorporated. If only corporations could have gay sex in the privacy of their own homes, maybe Scalia could find a way to support it.
Oh, and DADT would come roaring back. I betcha love that idea. Oh look the one year anniversary just happened and nobody even noticed. The world didn't end. Huh. Crazy.
No, I think I'm voting for Obama. I want Republicans in Texas to start to feel the warmth of the fire of demographic change that's coming in Texas and the Dem votes coming with it. Every little bit helps.
See, I didn't even mention abortion. Well, the female body has ways of....
This is what drives me so absolutely nuts about libertarians. They should be 100% in the Dem corner on social issues of liberty and only disagree with them on economic/foreign policy issues (the same issues they happen to disagree with Republicans about!). Yet they won't raise a finger to help libs on social causes like getting government the f#@$ out of your bedroom. Your interests align with Republicans roughly never and Dems roughly half the time, but you'll never see them helping out. Because at the end of it all, they say they value freedom and liberty but then do nothing to help fight for them.
But they post alot. Reloveeluuution amirite!
Last edited by loop610bob; 09-28-2012 at 12:43 PM..
Translation: Don't let the anger you shared with Ron Paul go to waste...
America is at a critical crossroads, and a person who throws his vote away and allows obama to win just because your favorite guy didn't win the nomination tells me that the person was more concerned about rubbing RP's defeat in America's face rather than concern for the future of America for our children and grandchildren.
Fight your fight four years from now, but at this point in time do everything possible to put America first and defeat obama.
America is at a crossroads and Romney needs to be president.
Romney will be the 2 night vodka bender that makes you gag whenever you see or smell vodka again. America needs to wake up and bring back the moderates, Obama is too far left and Romney is so far right.
The american people won't suffer enough under Obama to get off their ass and make things right. Romney is the man to do it, what's 4 years of suffering when the fate of our nation is at hand.
I urge all Americans to finally take the hard medicine, bend over and get the Romney / Ryan Colonoscopy. It will only hurt for a couple years. Romney / Ryan 2012!!!!
I have a hard time justifying eating the fifteen minutes it takes to vote when it seems like very nearly everyone else who's voting is bat shit insane. Do people really believe you get a say in how the world turns simply because the powers that be let you push a button on a machine? Seems to me that maybe a handful of voters really know what kind of person any given candidate is, and even for them, who is to say the candidate will or can behave according to expectations once elected? And why the bloody hell is reinventing our political system so high on the list of national priorities for both liberals and conservatives? Feels like Rome all over again, only with smart phones and light bulbs.
Oh, and the $16 trillion credit card bill says hello.
Young me IS TAKING CARE of old me by paying SS and Medicare taxes.
And I will continue to vote to make sure that compact remains in place.
The problem there is that they already saw all that money "sitting there doing nothing" and decided to spend it. Pretty sure you're too young to have a realistic chance of getting your SS back, regardless of who you vote for.
Cause we have to destroy the village in order to save it?
I feel we have moved passed the point where we as a country could come up with a compromise solution and stick it out. Each side is electing more and more partisan politicians who only want to stick it to the other side and dig in their heels. The chance for a compromise has past.
I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but sometimes you need to let the village idiot touch the hot pan for themselves to know that hot pan = pain, and it's not the liberal media spinning the facts. The sooner that happens, the sooner we can get things fixed.
If Obama is elected we will just keep pushing things down the road. We are losing our technological and educational edge. China will soon outpace us and render us obsolete. The long we wait, the harder it's going to be to recover.
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