These are the top 5 worst taxes ‘obamacare’ will impose in 2013

Quote from Hawk2007 : It's in your best interest to keep as many sick people off of your health insurance carrier as possible. I remember the specious car insurance requirement argument. Would you, bridgeburner, be thrilled if Congress mandated that it was a Civil Rights violation to charge convicted drunk drivers a higher premium for car insurance or deny them coverage entirely? What do you think that would do to the premium you and every other American paid? It's simple-minded to say "Oh yeah, denying pre-existing conditions is a terrible thing" without realizing the ramifications of forcing companies to accept everyone. I hate people that argue with Youtube videos, but there's a certain element that can't be put into an opinion piece since all of this comes out of President Obama's own mouth.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so With op-ed pieces, we just get the "Oh, Obama is being misquoted". Or, "You're clearly taking him out of context".

Do you have any data to show that insurance premiums have gone up for the majority of americans? Or that they will go up?

Quote from Hawk2007 : It's simple-minded to say "Oh yeah, denying pre-existing conditions is a terrible thing" without realizing the ramifications of forcing companies to accept everyone.

Like I said before, you're already footing the bill. If someone can't pay for a procedure, the tax payers pay for it. The Republicans tried to push this issue (and the Democrats somewhat are now) that this is to make those people who are trying to play the system - put money into the system.

Quote from Hawk2007 : I hate people that argue with Youtube videos, but there's a certain element that can't be put into an opinion piece since all of this comes out of President Obama's own mouth.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so With op-ed pieces, we just get the "Oh, Obama is being misquoted". Or, "You're clearly taking him out of context".

I mean, context is quite important. The video shows speeches before he even got to be President. He tried to push for a public option (which some would argue would lower premiums by $2500, but instead he compromised with the Republicans, so that "promise" didn't happen.

As for premiums, last I read they were up, on average, about $150, however, premiums were going up around 10%-15% anyways. Also, the full law hasn't been put into effect yet, so it's pretty hard to say how much it's actually going to cost per family. Since all the "goodies" have already been implemented, but how to pay for those "goodies" has not, it's pretty difficult to say one way or another; however, it should go down.

Quote from Hawk2007 : Keep in mind, nobody in the GOP voted for it. So, I hope that you don't think that the GOP had a tremendous amount of influence on any draft of the bill. It's wholly a democrat issue. (edit: i'm just pointing out the obvious, because I know that you're no fan of the GOP and conservatives and blame them for a lot of ills in this country. So, whatever good or bad comes from this bill, it's 100% owned by the democrat party. It was bought and paid for by them.)

AND Obama signed it.

PERIOD.

If it's such a POS Obama could have refused to sign it. This turd is all on Obama and the (D).

pretty sure this would have been good if the republicans actually cared about working for the benefit of every american instead of being obstructionist....

Oh wait
http://www.esquire.com/features/l...ycare-1012

Quote from Dr. J : AND Obama signed it. PERIOD. If it's such a POS Obama could have refused to sign it. This turd is all on Obama and the (D).

I have to agree. Obama has the White House and he had the Congress (both houses) behind him. I was hoping for immigration reform but we got this. There are some good parts to the bill but overall it's not a good piece of legislation. I think it should be scrapped or at least reformed. The quality adjusted life years is a concern. It's a fair way to ration care but the elderly and very sick can get the screws. Unfortunately it's the perfect storm - the baby boomers are aging and Medicare can't keep up.

Quote from bridgeburner : That's not even remotely true.

Forcing an insurer to cover a pre-existing condition is the peak of stupidity. Thats like forcing an auto insurer to cover a collision that occured before coverage began. At that point, it is no longer an insurer.

Quote from fenderman : forcing an insurer to cover a pre-existing condition is the peak of stupidity. Thats like forcing an auto insurer to cover a collision that occured before coverage began. At that point, it is no longer an insurer.

agree

Quote from ASimpleMan : Like I said before, you're already footing the bill. If someone can't pay for a procedure, the tax payers pay for it. The Republicans tried to push this issue (and the Democrats somewhat are now) that this is to make those people who are trying to play the system - put money into the system.

I think hawk2007 knows that the tax payer pays for people with "pre-existing conditions" in the form of ER visits... hes just saying he rather they get no care at all.

Quote from fenderman : Forcing an insurer to cover a pre-existing condition is the peak of stupidity. Thats like forcing an auto insurer to cover a collision that occured before coverage began. At that point, it is no longer an insurer.

You do realize that health insurance companies go out of their way to label everything possible a pre-existing condition and just hope it sticks? The vast majority of "pre-existing condition" cases happen to people several years after theyve been insured because health insurance points to some distant medical issue.

http://www.healthreform.gov/repor...denied.pdf

I dont understand how people are so ignorant regarding health care, they do not read anything on the subject, they just use whatever "facts" happen to be discussed on fox news or talk radio.

Quote from ASimpleMan : So what is the difference between the 1993 plan the Republicans put forth versus what Obama put forth in 2009 then? Also, please define "take over health care." What exact policies that Obamacare contains qualifies it as "taking over healthcare?" Are you referring to the mandate?

Was the "whatever the Health and Services directer deems? that's repeated tons of timesin the bill a Rep idea? What about the independent unacountable advisory board? I would venture to guess this plan is a lot different then what was proposed back in 93.

Quote from bridgeburner : Do you have any data to show that insurance premiums have gone up for the majority of americans? Or that they will go up?

Mine has twice already with a third coming up after the first. The insurer told me it was as a result of the ACA and what's coming up soon.

Quote from sanfran22 : Was the "whatever the Health and Services directer deems? that's repeated tons of timesin the bill a Rep idea? What about the independent unacountable advisory board? I would venture to guess this plan is a lot different then what was proposed back in 93.

You're going to have to be more specific. Yes, in the 93 bill, there was a plan for the independent accountable advisory board. Go read the bill, then you wouldn't have to guess as to what was in it.

Quote from Gotchaforce : I dont understand how people are so ignorant regarding health care, they do not read anything on the subject, they just use whatever "facts" happen to be discussed on fox news or talk radio.

Anyone here want to play a game and find out how many times the lefties use the word ignorant or ignorance when responding to their conservative opposition?

Quote from sanfran22 : Was the "whatever the Health and Services directer deems? that's repeated tons of timesin the bill a Rep idea? What about the independent unacountable advisory board? I would venture to guess this plan is a lot different then what was proposed back in 93.

I just don't understand why they would include that particular language. I mean, did they think Obama and Kathleen Sebelious would be running the show forever? I'm not even hinting at an Info-wars Alex Jones conspiracy.

I guess after 2008, they thought that the GOP would never be able to win another presidency. Maybe they won't if a third-party replaces the GOP. But, Dems won't hold the presidency forever.