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#1
10-19-2012, 10:57 PM
 Nationalizing as a political tool 1. The process whereby a sovereign nation takes ownership of foreign investments within it's borders. 2. To convert from private to governmental ownership and control: Sometimes Nationalizing is done with repayment and sometimes it's not. When it's not, sometimes the world courts rule in favor of the dispossessed and economic embargoes can be sanctioned until the country doing the nationalizing repays those they took the property of. But when you come right down to it, short of military intervention, there isn't a whole lot of recourse for those who've had their property Nationalized by a foreign gummint. I'd like to present 2 reasonably likely scenarios where China COULD Nationalize American investments in China. Bear in mind China is a Communist Dictatorship State - EVERYTHING is owned by the gummint, no matter what face they may put on it for the rest of the world. People who publicly appear to own businesses do so at the gummint's leisure, are just fronting for the PRC gummint, and cannot make a major move without it's approval. 1.) The Taiwan issue heats up to the point of the Pacific fleet and the Chinese Navy confronting each other in the Straight of Taiwan over it. In the interests of "National Security" China cuts off all exports to the USA and "Nationalizes" all American-owned or those with even a partial share of investors that are American industries, (including American pension investment funds), in Hong Kong and on the mainland of the PRC. 2.) Failure to pay debts owed on bonds held by the Chinese causes a default situation and China, in lieu of payment on those bonds, decides to take all American assets in the PRC in an act of repleven. That assumes, on the part of the U.S., that American industries are also just as fictitious an arm of the gummint - which wouldn't be that far-fetched considering how often the CIA has used so many American businesses as a front for it's agents, world-wide. One MIGHT legitimately believe Corporations and gummint sleep in the same bed for the most part, given the concerted interest-serving BY U.S. politicians, and given the way the Chinese gummint does it's own business with corporate fronts. What do you believe the possible repercussions of such a complete and total Nationalization effort, on the part of the PRC, would be on America and all those uber-wealthy Americans who currently derive millions or even billions of dollars in income from their offshoring. Lest anyone think I have forgotten about the millions of people who's retirement incomes are currently earning interest through investments in China, I'm not, but individually they may not be as affected by a loss of Chinese income as those who are heavily invested in it through their own deep pocket ownership of vast tracts of the Chinese-American trade. Collectively the losses would be enormous, but the adversity would be shared across millions of people and lessen it's impact compared to an investor who has put a large portion of their entire wealth on the line to make vast sums from Chinese concerns. Nationalization of American concerns in China may seem unlikely to some of you, but in my OPINION it is fast becoming much more of a viable threat. China has become very powerful in world trade. Even a UN embargo or a world court verdict against them is pretty much unenforceable at this point. Even if most economic powers decided to join a trade embargo - against their own national interests, which would engender considerable economic pain in their own countries and COULD lead to Nationalizing of THEIR interests in China as well - the other half of the world that hates America and could care less if we go under would continue to import Chinese goods. The same goods Americans WERE profiting from, but are now feeding the Chinese gummint and economy with 100% of the profits, would soften such a blow from the loss of American consumer markets a great deal, since America buys most of it on a charge card anyway and China isn't REALLY being paid squat for it.. Who's going to stop them?  Have at it. |
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Multi-Quote| 10-19-2012, 10:57 PM | |
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#2
10-20-2012, 12:06 AM
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Something to think about, that's for sure.
I often wonder what this country might be like if we hadn't embraced the "world economy"..... “Don’t go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.”
― Mark Twain |
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#3
10-20-2012, 12:53 AM
It sure as HELL seems to be working for them, they aren't selling their economic & national security down the global river. I read somewhere the U.S. Army has a 30 day active combat supply of boots and no more than a 60 day supply of uniforms. If China cut America off, our troops would be fighting barefoot, naked, (and hopefully not pregnant for lack of condoms), inside of 2 months. Critical components of military hardware would be so severely compromised we would be, literally, throwing rocks at our enemies in 90 to 120 days. Last edited by Anonymouse; 10-20-2012 at 01:00 AM.. |
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#4
10-20-2012, 07:42 AM
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In related news, China has been buying up gold and telling its citizens to buy up gold, while Ben Bernanke says in front of Congress that gold isn't money, yet for some reason the U.S. sure does have a lot of guards at Fort Knox guarding something that isn't money. Must be guarding it "out of tradition" like Bernanke said is why the U.S. still keeps any gold in the first place.
The end of the U.S. dollar and the rise of the gold-backed Chinese dollar. Look Out. Joe Biden says Buy a Shotgun! Wackiness ensues! [youtu.be]
Keynesians have "stimulus spent" $16 trillion dollars. Where are the jobs? Are you on Obama's Little List? [youtube.com] The biggest tax no one talks about [washingtontimes.com] "George Ought to Help" [youtube.com] Keynes vs Hayek economics rap battle [youtube.com] How the GOP stole the nomination [examiner.com] |
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#5
10-20-2012, 08:13 AM
Our addiction to cheap Chinese products, has led us down a path which won't be easy for us to return from. |
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#6
10-20-2012, 08:19 AM
When I do take the time to read your posts, I find them insightful and thought provoking. That is something I can't say of many on this forum. |
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#7
10-20-2012, 09:19 AM
The issue right now with the U.S. economy is there's not enough jobs for everyone to work full-time. Companies are profitable but there's never a reason to hire too many people. So bring some more jobs to the U.S., prices might rise a little, but at this point a lot of people will take $8-10/hour for a factory job. http://www.bloomberg.c |
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#8
10-20-2012, 09:43 AM
Cheap labor of foreigners is killing us now. |
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#9
10-20-2012, 01:36 PM
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Again if it wasn't for those cheap CHINESE/ASIAN products , a good 70 percent of american will be living like bums..
This is how the rich gets to maintain their wealth and many americans are too stupid to comprehend or complain.. As long as they are able to still get a cellphone and clothing and other fun products, they don't know that the rich are screwing them all over by making them think they are living "comfortably", while our wages have been stagnant and the rich have tripled or quadrupedal, their wealth .. Us living comfortably is because we have a whole hidden nation of slaves who are sending products over to us. Once that dries up, there will only be two class left... the uber super rich, the rich and the poor So keep thinking that you making less then 10% or less of what the top fatcat is making, is fair |
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#10
10-20-2012, 01:40 PM
the quest and need to branch out to NEW Markets is called Capitalism... so which are you? |
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#11
10-20-2012, 03:50 PM
You learn something new every day........ |
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#12
10-20-2012, 04:03 PM
Only capitalists seek out new places to take advantage of constantly.. Look at China, it was a socialist country that wasn't involved in the international affairs or economics much till the "westerners" came in with their Trojan Horse called "capitalism" Look at China now, a quasi capitalist powerhouse rifled with abuse and corruption, with basically a rich - poor gap that is worst then even the USA.. Last edited by Ryu-bom; 10-20-2012 at 04:07 PM.. |
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#13
10-20-2012, 04:06 PM
All growth depends upon activity. There is no development physically or intellectually without effort, and effort means work. — Calvin Coolidge
"Under Barack Obama, the only 'change' is that 'hope' is hard to find" - Marco Rubio |
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#14
10-20-2012, 04:35 PM
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#15
10-20-2012, 05:24 PM
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@Devo agreed on cheap Chinese labor killing us, to some extent. Good case studies of economic systems that work for the whole community are voluntarily taken out by small communities (these can extrapolate to larger scales). Ex: Black Wall Street in Oklahoma early 1900s, Asian-Americans in Cali in the early 1900s (set up revolving lines of credit and took turns on who could borrow - pooling together capital in a community - why don't Americans do that more often?!?). To keep it quite simple, if Americans made sure everything they bought was made in the US (perhaps by people in their city), problem solved.
Now, I don't believe in outright socialism (democracy also doesn't work great.. but I digress.), as that forces people to participate. If they want to organize and work as a part of a socialist society, that's their freedom.. I don't think government needs to make that a guarantee besides "consumer protection" laws tailored for people who want to participate in a more outright socialist society though.
Probably should have the socialist v. capitalist talk elsewhere, but since you brought it up.. Capitalism works by allowing individuals to own private property, and use their wealth ("capital") to make (capital) investments- such as paying to get a factory built. And then the evil capitalist can employ people in his/her factory, and pay them whatever (at/above min. wage) he/she feels. I have no issue admitting that a lot of the capital that drove capitalism in the U.S. was built by slave labor, and after that the profits from slavery used to take advantage of people, in company towns working long hours for little pay etc. At any rate, the US has elements of socialism (social security, interstate highway system, USPS, etc.), and elements of capitalism (pretty much any for-profit company). But branching out into new markets isn't a necessity of capitalism; and it's not necessarily excluded from socialism. What if the benevolent socialist cult leader decides it's best for everyone in South Dakota to move to North Dakota so everyone can "make more money" (read: cult leader can skim more off the top). Same could happen with conquering a foreign land and deciding X people should go there and spread the good socialist word. |
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