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TP-LINK TL-WDR3600 N600 Wireless N Dual Band Gigabit Router w/ 2x USB Ports EXPIRED

immad 9,580 November 18, 2012 at 02:14 PM in Computers (6) More Newegg Deals
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$39

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Promoted 11-18-2012 at 05:15 PM View Original Post
Newegg has TP-LINK TL-WDR3600 N600 Wireless N Dual Band Gigabit Router w/ 2x USB Ports for $69 - $30 rebate = $39 with free shipping. Thanks immad

Price Research: Our research indicates that TP-LINK TL-WDR3600 N600 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit Router w/ 2x USB Ports is $30 lower (43% savings) than the next best available price from a reputable merchant with prices ranging from $69 to $82. - yuugotserved

Original Post

Edited November 18, 2012 at 05:10 PM by widgit
TP-LINK TL-WDR3600 N600 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit Router IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n, IEEE 802.3/3u/3ab [newegg.com]
  • IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n, IEEE 802.3/3u/3ab
  • Up to 300+300Mbps Wireless Data Rates
  • 1 x 10/100/1000M WAN; 4 x 10/100/1000M LAN

Mail in Rebate [newegg.com]

Alternatively: Newegg is offering same router Via eBay for $54.99. You may be able to use the Mail in rebate bringing the price down to $24.99, however need to confirm.

NewEgg via eBay [ebay.com]

132 Comments

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#61
Quote from peppermint View Post :
So does anyone know if rebate is good from the ebay one?
No, see post #6 in this thread.
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
#62
Quote from flashfir View Post :
So how does this router's QoS end up being compared to let's say Tomato RAF on a RT-n16?
Sorry for the length of this response, its complicated. Smilie

Regarding OpenWRT:
Short version:
Tomato is awesome and gets you good QoS easily. OpenWRT with CoDel is better technically, but harder to configure correctly. For most people, Tomato (or DD-WRT) will be better.

Tomato gets you probably 80% of the way to "perfect" QoS (and pretty easily!). Properly configured, OpenWRT + CoDel should be even better.

Long version:
I'm really excited about the new CoDel (pronounced "coddle") algorithm, specifically so I can have bulletproof QoS for VoIP. In a typical home internet setup its common to have massive delay while uploading large files (i.e. while uploading images to Facebook, seeding torrents, using online backup, etc).

There's a tool called 'ping' which can be used to measure the delay in a network. It's pretty typical for me to be able to 'ping google.com' and have it reply in 30 ms (milliseconds), which is pretty fast! This is called 'latency' (or the network 'delay').

Ideally, for VoIP calls I like to see 60-70ms of latency (or less) to my VoIP provider and have that latency be fairly consistent (less than 20ms of variation, aka 'jitter').

Without any QoS, I often see latency spikes upwards of 1000ms during uploads. This makes high quality VoIP/skype/etc impossible and browsing painfully slow.

With well-configured QoS on Tomato its much better-- spikes of at most 100-150 ms during uploads, resulting in decent VoIP calls (a little extra delay) and pretty decent browsing.

CoDel can help bring latency down even further by helping address an issue called 'bufferbloat'. Based on reports, it sounds like a major breakthrough.

The problem is that CoDel is so new its only in the newest (3.3 or higher) versions of Linux. Many routers use chipsets from Broadcom which only have drivers for Linux 2.4 or 2.6, meaning you can't use CoDel for them (for now?). Tomato and dd-wrt seem to be stuck on 2.4 or 2.6, primarily because they want to continue supporting devices needing these drivers.

The TL-WDR3600 (and TL-WDR4300) use Atheros chipsets which have open-source drivers which work fully on these new versions of Linux, meaning they can use CoDel. OpenWRT Attitude Adjustment will be the first release with CoDel included.

Also interesting is the Netgear WNDR3800 (or the WNDR3700 v2 [not v1, v3, or v4]) with CeroWRT. CeroWRT is the research project that's been testing CoDel. It sounds like the results have been pretty stellar, so CoDel was pulled into OpenWRT and will be in the newest version (Attitude Adjustment).
Last edited by peted20 November 19, 2012 at 12:48 AM
Reply Helpful Comment? 0 0
#63
Quote from peted20 View Post :
Sorry for the length of this response, its complicated. Smilie

Regarding OpenWRT:
Short version:
Tomato is awesome and gets you good QoS easily. OpenWRT with CoDel is better technically, but harder to configure correctly. For most people, Tomato (or DD-WRT) will be better.

Tomato gets you probably 80% of the way to "perfect" QoS (and pretty easily!). Properly configured, OpenWRT + CoDel should be even better.

Long version:
I'm really excited about the new CoDel (pronounced "coddle") algorithm, specifically so I can have bulletproof QoS for VoIP. In a typical home internet setup its common to have massive delay while uploading large files (i.e. while uploading images to Facebook, seeding torrents, using online backup, etc).

There's a tool called 'ping' which can be used to measure the delay in a network. It's pretty typical for me to be able to 'ping google.com' and have it reply in 30 ms (milliseconds), which is pretty fast! This is called 'latency' (or the network 'delay').

Ideally, for VoIP calls I like to see 60-70ms of latency (or less) to my VoIP provider and have that latency be fairly consistent (less than 20ms of variation, aka 'jitter').

Without any QoS, I often see latency spikes upwards of 1000ms during uploads. This makes high quality VoIP/skype/etc impossible and browsing painfully slow.

With well-configured QoS on Tomato its much better-- spikes of at most 100-150 ms during uploads, resulting in decent VoIP calls (a little extra delay) and pretty decent browsing.

CoDel can help bring latency down even further by helping address an issue called 'bufferbloat'. Based on reports, it sounds like a major breakthrough.

The problem is that CoDel is so new its only in the newest (3.3 or higher) versions of Linux. Many routers use chipsets from Broadcom which only have drivers for Linux 2.4 or 2.6, meaning you can't use CoDel for them (for now?). Tomato and dd-wrt seem to be stuck on 2.4 or 2.6, primarily because they want to continue supporting devices needing these drivers.

The TL-WDR3600 (and TL-WDR4300) use Atheros chipsets which have open-source drivers which work fully on these new versions of Linux, meaning they can use CoDel. OpenWRT Attitude Adjustment will be the first release with CoDel included.

Also interesting is the Netgear WNDR3800 (or the WNDR3700 v2 [not v1, v3, or v4]) with CeroWRT. CeroWRT is the research project that's been testing CoDel. It sounds like the results have been pretty stellar, so CoDel was pulled into OpenWRT and will be in the newest version (Attitude Adjustment).

I followed, I took the first 2 classes of 4 in the CCNA networking class, so I have to understand some basic fundamentals to have gotten through them.

So... this would actually be a wiser buy for me since QoS on Tomato would still have my pings jump about 100-150+ ms which to me is almost unacceptable still.

Yay or nay?
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#64
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#65
The only difference between the 3600 and 4300 is the 4300 has 3 data streams when using the 5Ghz band.
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#66
Quote from flashfir View Post :
I followed, I took the first 2 classes of 4 in the CCNA networking class, so I have to understand some basic fundamentals to have gotten through them.

So... this would actually be a wiser buy for me since QoS on Tomato would still have my pings jump about 100-150+ ms which to me is almost unacceptable still.

Yay or nay?
I just spent a little more time reading and playing with a VirtualBox VM of OpenWRT Attitude Adjustment beta2. I think all my fuss over CoDel is a bit premature. It looks amazing, but its really bleeding edge right now (emphasis on bleeding).

That said, I'll give it a try when mine comes. Anyone interested feel free to say Hi on twitter (@peted20) next Monday-ish-- hopefully my router will arrive I'll have some insight on how get CoDel working. Smilie

P.S. You mentioned the RT-N16 earlier? If you already have one, this special build of Tomato sounds like it might have a similarly positive effect on bufferbloat:
http://tomatousb.org/forum/t-370085
Last edited by peted20 November 19, 2012 at 03:59 AM
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#67
Quote from peted20 View Post :
I just spent a little more time reading and playing with a VirtualBox VM of OpenWRT Attitude Adjustment beta2. I think all my fuss over CoDel is a bit premature. It looks amazing, but its really bleeding edge right now (emphasis on bleeding).

That said, I'll give it a try when mine comes. Anyone interested feel free to say Hi on twitter (@peted20) next Monday-ish-- hopefully my router will arrive I'll have some insight on how get CoDel working. Smilie

P.S. You mentioned the RT-N16 earlier? If you already have one, this special build of Tomato sounds like it might have a similarly positive effect on bufferbloat:
http://tomatousb.org/forum/t-370085
I'll keep an eye on your twitter for how CoDel works.

Nope! I'm running an ol' WRT54G2 on dd-wrt micro. The control is amazing compared to stock but the QoS chokes the machine (100% CPU Load) when trying to QoS for our 7 dude household -_-;
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#68
Quote from flashfir View Post :
I'll keep an eye on your twitter for how CoDel works.

Nope! I'm running an ol' WRT54G2 on dd-wrt micro. The control is amazing compared to stock but the QoS chokes the machine (100% CPU Load) when trying to QoS for our 7 dude household -_-;
Yeah, the 16MB of RAM and 240Mhz CPU might be a real bottleneck there. Especially if the dudes are simultaneously streaming video from YouTube, Netflix, etc etc like I often do. I recently upgraded my household to a router with 128MB RAM and 500Mhz CPU using Staples Rewards and it's made a huge difference.
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#69
Quote from Wildpir8 View Post :
Yeah, the 16MB of RAM and 240Mhz CPU might be a real bottleneck there. Especially if the dudes are simultaneously streaming video from YouTube, Netflix, etc etc like I often do. I recently upgraded my household to a router with 128MB RAM and 500Mhz CPU using Staples Rewards and it's made a huge difference.
How do you have your QoS setup? What firmware? And what kind of sensitive activities are you doing, do you game?
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#70
Quote from flashfir View Post :
How do you have your QoS setup? What firmware? And what kind of sensitive activities are you doing, do you game?
It's a WNDR3500L V2 running DD-WRT. Very stable without any QoS or sensitivity adjustments. I game all the time. Huge Steam account and Halo 4. Smilie
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#71
Quote from Wildpir8 View Post :
It's a WNDR3500L V2 running DD-WRT. Very stable without any QoS or sensitivity adjustments. I game all the time. Huge Steam account and Halo 4. Smilie
Well... that kind of invalidates everything you said to me in terms of usefulness.
It doesn't take much processing power to throw internet at a group of machines without QoS.
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#72
Quote from flashfir View Post :
Well... that kind of invalidates everything you said to me in terms of usefulness.
It doesn't take much processing power to throw internet at a group of machines without QoS.
I'd think 16MB spread across 7 users would be a huge bottleneck with or without it. Which was my original implication.
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#73
Quote from Wildpir8 View Post :
I'd think 16MB spread across 7 users would be a huge bottleneck with or without it. Which was my original implication.
If you are referencing the 16MB ram on the router: that's not how it works.

A better stress test would be if you were actively torrenting on all 7 computers, or any program that creates many connections.
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#74
Quote from petard View Post :
Your WNDR3700 is stable? I have two of them, one just straight up freezes on any firmware including stock quite often. The other one is running dd-wrt and will just decide to hard reset itself whenever it wants, usually once every two weeks or so. I'm sick of it. Maybe I should try OpenWRT, but I just feel like I need to get rid of this model.
Mine is v1 that I bought refurb from ...*thinking*....One sale a day, one sucker a day, daily steals....one of those places. It took a loooong @$$ time to finally get it. Its been about a year now with it and its solid. Had dd-wrt on it as it was easier to use when setting up VPN and what I was used to but then went back to OpenWRT after reading a performance comparison by smallnetbuilder when running ddwrt on it. Performance to me wasn't an issue but after figuring out to setup PPTP vpn on OpenWRT and being able to add/remove packages and such fairly easily I went back with OpenWRT
Quote from wdevans2590 View Post :
So maybe you could add where to get an image for openwrt. Or do I need to download source and make it myself ? I didn't see an obvious place to get one.
Here is the build I use (built by someone else 'cause I don't want to do it Big Grin) https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=27722
Quote :
Quote from xur17 View Post :
According to online chat, the rebate isn't valid on the Ebay purchase unfortunately.
Quote from peppermint View Post :
So does anyone know if rebate is good from the ebay one?
Quote from Wildpir8 View Post :
No, see post #6 in this thread.
You dudes gotta' get creative. If I bought this router from Ebay you damn skippy I would get the rebate too!!! Example: Corsair ForceGT 180GB SSD that was under a manufacturer rebate promotion but the item wasnt bought from said retailer but instead from the bay. Get rebate form and a previous online sales receipt from a previous purchase from said retailer. Get necessary info needed from said retailers website and a little time with photoshop. Rebate Form sent and Rebate Card received. Easy peasy!
Last edited by ciris November 19, 2012 at 09:02 AM
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#75
I was going to consider purchasing this, despite my poor luck with MIRs...

But the router is now OOS. :/
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