22.6% increase in Health Insurance Premium.

Quote from travathian : With the healthcare system, not as someone who works in the system. Yeah great, you take care of some family members. You know more than Joe dumbass on the street. But that is a far cry from those who actually work in the system every day. But keep patting yourself on the back and acting like you know it all cause you googled something.

More hot air. I got nothing to fight it other than facts.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/D...iates.aspx

I believe hospitals should do what they have to do in order to stay operational and profitable. Also stop using universal health care systems as comparisons.

My problem is being 38 and already on maitnence drugs that I can't stop taking. I would carry a high deductible plan if I could get even half way prescription coverage.

Also, why do they use codes? Why not spell out what you are charging for? The coding system needs serious revamping.

Quote from travfar : More hot air. I got nothing to fight it other than facts. http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/D...iates.aspx

First, I come in peace...

This is an important discussion for all of us. Some things that were said struck home for me. Let me say that my health benefits are not through an insurance company like BCBS, but are paid through a self funded plan(A MEWA) funded exclusively by contributions from me and my employer. Without a BCBS or Humana behind our plan, there is no big pot of money that can be dipped into. We (my employer and I) have a vested interest in keeping medical costs down. It is our money we are spending.

Let me just jump right in...

Pricing: There is transparent pricing out there. For example:

http://www.surgerycenterok.com

http://www.surgerycenterok.com/pricing.php

This is a partial list of procedures that they perform. This is all-in pricing, including follow ups. It is interesting that it has driven down costs in the market. The local hospitals, when asked about pricing, give the same price that is posted on the SCO website, but do not include the surgeons and anesthesiology bill. And the charges on the hospital bills often include huge markups and reflect wasteful practices. Here is a short video about SCO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uPdkhMVdMQ

As mentioned in the Youtube clip, there are others out there. Heart, cancer, internal medicine, orthopedic... Our self-funded plan pays them the agreed-upon price for a procedure without having to deal with PPO repricing, and then the discount, and then the bill audit... And these are not seedy, dumpy places. They are top of the line as far as quality of care, with extremely low infection rates and very high patient ratings. They treat the injured professional and college athletes here... (Guess the teams for bonus points!!)

Comparing prices: The ability to compare the prices of different providers is out there.

http://healthcarebluebook.com/

Our benefit administrator has actually shared all the EOB info with HCB, created a data base unique to our plan experience, which allows us to find the fair priced providers. You can also search by zip code and get a good idea of what a fairly priced procedure should cost.

So, it appears that as higher deductibles become more prevalent, the onus is on us to be better consumers. If we are better consumers, the price charged for healthcare will come down. It really works. The premiums that my group has paid have gone up, on average, about 4.5% for the past 4 years. It was at that time we started educating participants about being good stewards of their benefit dollars. It has been very successful thus far.

Bottom line, if we don't become better consumers, we will pay much, much more out of our pockets for care.

There are many issues that I did not touch that result in our healthcare costs increasing. PPO networks, not for profit hospitals, third party payment distortions, government healthcare... Here is a longer interview with the same doctor that runs the Surgery Center of Oklahoma. Dr. Smith has some interesting insights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRn9ySc-RDM

I appreciate the opportunity to share these thoughts with you all.

Quote from travfar : Man that's cheap. That's like Thailand cheap. For us it was $3000 just for the crown. That was with insurance. $6000 for the implant. The extraction cost was the same though.

WTH, was this an OC or Beverly Hills doc, why would a crown cost 3K? I've had a couple crowns and they were all around $500 total cost with insurance covering 50% (250). 3K seems completely out of line and any dentist telling me that I would have been laughing on the floor. That implant number looks way on the high end of the spectrum. My mum got quoted 2500 for dental implants from the same doc that did my crown.
Also, this same doc offers lower prices if you pay cash, 50% up front and 50% at completion of the procedure. The discount is usually around 20% lower than the total procedure cost quoted to the insurance.

Quote from jostle : WTH, was this an OC or Beverly Hills doc, why would a crown cost 3K? I've had a couple crowns and they were all around $500 total cost with insurance covering 50% (250). 3K seems completely out of line and any dentist telling me that I would have been laughing on the floor. That implant number looks way on the high end of the spectrum. My mum got quoted 2500 for dental implants from the same doc that did my crown. Also, this same doc offers lower prices if you pay cash, 50% up front and 50% at completion of the procedure. The discount is usually around 20% lower than the total procedure cost quoted to the insurance.

Nope. Just a poor fishing village in Northern Mexico. So poor that even fishing is no longer profitable and the natives have resorted to farming seaweed. It's called St. James. Or in the native language, San Diego.

Like all things, implants are more expensive in CA. It pays to do medical tourism to other parts of the US where it is cheaper. As for places like Beverely Hills, I think there $9000 would be considered "economy".

"However, if you were to look at the median range then dental implants will set you back by $2000 to $4000 and can even go up to $14000 in some cases."

"On an average in california, you will be charge $7,250 for dental implants."

Here's the link.

http://www.identalhub.com/article...s-426.aspx

Just looking at their breakdown. The "bone graft" portion for my dad was twice that cost breakdown.

Quote from Goose2257 : http://www.surgerycenterok.com/pricing.php

Thanks for that. That's exactly what is useful. I wish it was the standard and that everyone would post pricelists like that. It's exactly what I find overseas.

I too look at health blue book. Unfortunately those aren't offical prices so there's no way to hold anyone to them.

Quote from Goose2257 : Let me say that my health benefits are not through an insurance company like BCBS, but are paid through a self funded plan(A MEWA) funded exclusively by contributions from me and my employer. Without a BCBS or Humana behind our plan, there is no big pot of money that can be dipped into. We (my employer and I) have a vested interest in keeping medical costs down. It is our money we are spending.

Actually 70% of the total employees insurance are self-funded. All the big names ie Wells Fargo, Dell, etc are self-funded.
They just use insurance's companies' PPO network and the insurance company charge them admin fee. I believe it's the same for you guys.

Quote from kyotuosa : Actually 70% of the total employees insurance are self-funded. All the big names ie Wells Fargo, Dell, etc are self-funded. They just use insurance's companies' PPO network and the insurance company charge them admin fee. I believe it's the same for you guys.

Absolutely! Most folks do not have "insurance", they have "medical benefits".

You are correct, to a point. We have a third party administrator who pays our claims. We do utilize the PPO networks and are subject to their repricing of services. A majority of our claims are paid this way. This process does not result in any savings.

We also have direct contracts with a number of providers so we can avoid going through the PPO networks. This is where we pay SCO and the others directly, without a middleman changing (You could read that "raising") the prices on us. Huge savings are found here.

Real life example: We did a sampling of 5 hospital claims the trust paid. Different stuff... Two Knees... Hernias... Whatever... It was a total billing of $450,000. After the PPO applied its discounts, the total amount paid was $345,000, for a "savings" in excess of $100,000. Not bad, you might say...

But wait!! If those procedures were done at facilities that we contract with directly, like SCO, the billing would have been $92,000. That is a savings of $250,000!!! On 5 patients!! Think about that... That really is a lot of money!! So while we have the PPO networks at our disposal, they are not a first choice. And emergencies do happen at all times and all places, so they are a necessary part of any comprehensive medical package.

49% of america have chosen to pay for higher cost to the insurance companies. nuf said

What you guys don't understand is that with Obamacare, it actually makes healthcare even MORE expensive because now they have to offset the cost of forced coverage for someone with a pre-existing condition.

SURE -- GREAT for them.

But for EVERYBODY else, WE pay for their claims by increased premiums.

How about the FINES for any company that does not provide healthcare options?
Expect smaller employers to hire a lot more 30hour employee's going forward.

Source: Family member is top insurance healthcare broker for last 20 years.

Obamacare is nothing more than healthcare foodstamps.

I forgot all about this thread... Here is a great example from one of the best hospitals in the world:http://my.clevelandclinic.org/Doc...N_2010.pdf

So your dads cut lip as an example would be an ER level 2 by standard ESI triage protocols. Add in some basic lidocaine and sutures (say $200). Even if the MD charged $1000 for their 20 minutes of service (sutures have low RVU's and are often pushed off to NPs or PAs). We are a far far cry from $36,000. Maybe $3600

Reading on the top, negotiated rates by insurance companies are cheaper.

Anyone who signs up for a high deductible plan but does not have a HSA account to go with it, should not be complaining here

Quote from travfar : No sir. You sound ignorant. Not just sound, demonstrated. You seem to be making things up. Show me a pricelist for a doctor or hospital. You claim you work in healthcare, show me the pricelist for the place you work at. Until then, educate yourself. "In health care markets consumers often have difficulty finding useful price data. In particular, few consumers have a clear idea of what hospital stays or hospital-based procedures will cost, or understand how hospital charges are determined." www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34101.pdf "“We talk about ‘consumer-driven health care’ and how patients should ‘shop’ for care,’’ Hsia said. “But right now, our system isn’t set up at all for allowing patients to act as consumers. It is nearly impossible — even for me, as someone who studies this — to predict what someone’s hospital bill will be. Our system doesn’t have a good way of regulating charges.’’" http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2012/04/...-consumers "Julie called around to a variety of diagnostic centers and hospitals in Tampa. “It’s frustrating," she said. "People were either telling me they didn't know how much it was, they didn't have access to that information, that I would need to get put on a waiting list and it would take like a week to find out how much it was and they'd call me back when they knew."" http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/...procedures I could go on all day or you could figure out how to use Google. So why shouldn't healthcare come out of that same tax money just like police and fire coverage? Many other countries that do that have far lower cost and yet far better healthcare than US. They all are about protecting the well being of the taxpayer. Show me where in the Constitution it says you have the RIGHT to have police and fire protection? Police and fire protection aren't rights either. All your arguments against healthcare coverage also apply to police and fire coverage. Until you educated yourself, your arguments just seemed made up and halfcocked. Which they are. By the way Texas has the worst healthcare system in the US. The US has the worst healthcare system in the developed world. Thus you have the worst healthcare in the developed world. Congratuations!!! http://www.chron.com/news/houston...687193.php

You thinking giving all the money to the government via taxes instead of ins companies is a better idea? Forgive my lack of confidence in the gov't to be more efficient

I'd like to see a breakup between employees and employers when it comes to health ins. People rely on their job to offer a plan. Most people only pay a small portion of the plans cost. So the overall cost is out of sight out of mind. If my company gave me money and told me to get my own plan I would be shopping around like auto ins. Would that drive costs down?

Part of the issue I see is a salesman takes 2 or 3 Microsoft HR employees out to lunch. Hooks them up with free crap and they agree to use their plan. 100k employees had no say in the plan they are offered.