Waterpik Ultra Water Flosser $30.99 A/R ~ F/S *Back again & less $'s*

Quote from travfar : IMO, it's better than flossing. Even after flossing, this thing power washes out all this crap that old school flossing and rinsing didn't. It's quite remarkable. It will also clean your teeth were a brush and flossing can't. I'm not alone. Google and you'll find plenty of people saying the same.

I'm in the dental profession and I promise you, this DOES NOT replace flossing. I don't care what people on Google say. "If it's on the internet it must be true".

Quote from pizzaslut : Do these get gunked up? If so, are they easy to clean? I don't floss but I'd like to and this seems easier than running a string back and forth between my teeth.

I own an older model for 3 years, and it's still working. The only part you need to clean is the water tank, which I do maybe once a month. The piece that goes into my mouth, I just let it sit in a cup of Listerine. The purpose is to kill whatever germs that is there. IMO, it's a must have regardless of flossing or not.

Some people complains that it leaks. It doesn't. The user guide clearly stated not to leave remaining water in the tank.

Quote from lanesutton : I also had coupon SURVEYTHANKS entered in previously from yesterday's NIVEA deal, then I added code PRETTY and without tax, it came to $29.99. Then, with the $5 rebate that brings it to $24.99, subtract cash back + tax. I can't re-use the code but others might be able to. $44.99 originally - $9 with code PRETTY - $5 with SURVEYTHANKS - $5 rebate - cash back + FS = $24.99 + tax

Sounds like a deal.

Quote from pizzaslut : Do these get gunked up? If so, are they easy to clean? I don't floss but I'd like to and this seems easier than running a string back and forth between my teeth.

I've had one for years without it ever getting "gunked up". I suspect if you use clean water and additives every time like I do, you will not have any problems.

Out of stock now.

Quote from sroth_1 : I'm in the dental profession and I promise you, this DOES NOT replace flossing. I don't care what people on Google say. "If it's on the internet it must be true".

I do not believe they the poster said it replaces flossing, but for some people a waterpik is more important than flossing. In my case if I only floss and brush in between cleanings my gums bleed. Yet if I waterpik and brush without flossing, my gums hardly bleed at all.

Quote from sroth_1 : I'm in the dental profession and I promise you, this DOES NOT replace flossing. I don't care what people on Google say. "If it's on the internet it must be true".

You mean like how your post is on the internet?

I hear you though. You have to take everything everyone says with a grain of salt. My dentist says I need to get regular cleanings. I ask him for studies proving that it's beneficial. He can't name any. As far as I know, at best, whether regular teeth cleanings are beneficial is unknown.

As far as I know, there is no proof that old school flossing is beneficial. There is at least one study that shows that it doesn't matter. I guess the same should be said of this device. Barring a series of conclusive studies, it's an unknown. Unless you happen to know of one. Otherwise does saying one unknown does not replace another unknown have much meaning?

To play it safe, I old school floss and use this. Like I said, it definitely washes out a ton of crap that brushing and flossing didn't get. I often wonder where it's all coming from.

I'm glad there's a professional here to lead us down the right path. Any studies you can post that addresses these issues would be greatly appreciated.

Spent too much time with the item in the cart double checking the deal and as a result watched it go OOS.
That's OK, because the previous deals coming in in the mid/upper $20 range AR were sticking with me a little too long to pull the trigger anyway.
Another time it is then...

thanks

Quote from pizzaslut : Do these get gunked up? If so, are they easy to clean? I don't floss but I'd like to and this seems easier than running a string back and forth between my teeth.

I hate flossing also. But I have to. I found Reach Flosser to be a great aid in flossing. I no longer have to wrap the floss around my fingers, or try to reach the back teeth.

I'm interested (hope) in buying this device as another aid in mouth health. Once there's another SD.

Anyone know if the coupon work in-store, which seem to be in stock. I'll guess I'll be trying tomorrow.

Quote from travfar : You mean like how your post is on the internet? I hear you though. You have to take everything everyone says with a grain of salt. My dentist says I need to get regular cleanings. I ask him for studies proving that it's beneficial. He can't name any. As far as I know, at best, whether regular teeth cleanings are beneficial is unknown. As far as I know, there is no proof that old school flossing is beneficial. There is at least one study that shows that it doesn't matter. I guess the same should be said of this device. Barring a series of conclusive studies, it's an unknown. Unless you happen to know of one. Otherwise does saying one unknown does not replace another unknown have much meaning? To play it safe, I old school floss and use this. Like I said, it definitely washes out a ton of crap that brushing and flossing didn't get. I often wonder where it's all coming from. I'm glad there's a professional here to lead us down the right path. Any studies you can post that addresses these issues would be greatly appreciated.

What you call "old school flossing" is not beneficial at all; If you floss like bugs bunny, side to side and only one tooth. Just popping the floss in and out isn't quite enough. You actually need to use proper technique. Cleaning your teeth is not as easy as simply brushing and flossing. There is the need for proper technique(s) to clean every surface of every tooth. It's a very complex task that people don't even have the dexterity developed to accomplish until the age of 8 or so (require adult's help).

I'm not about to go hunting for studies because I'm telling you this as a dentist and if you don't want to take my knowledge as true, then that's you're choice. If you were my patient, I might spend the time to do so. This product is helpful for the average person because I'm not going to lie, maybe 10% of my patients properly clean their teeth. I'm lucky if I can get them all to just pop the floss through each contact one or two times a week. Doing a simple pop through will help at the direct contact while this product can possibly do some good for the rest of the area between the teeth and the gums. You can probably do better with just regular floss and good technique.

The whole point of my message is to explain to those buying this product that it does not, cannot, and will not take the place of flossing with proper technique. It's merely a tool (that's not really needed) to help you clean your teeth.

Here is the floss that I recommend: http://goo.gl/PZZVo
Don't use the glide stuff or anything slippery. If it's slipping, it's not really cleaning anything.





Edit: I did a really quick search and came up with this study: http://goo.gl/TuadA
Clear statistically significant evidence that proper prophylaxis(cleanings) and home care lead to improvement. Over the past decade or so, the entire dental field has made a really big push towards evidence based dentistry. This is wonderful and I commend you for your inquiry, but it should also be noted how incredibly difficult dental clinical research is. Every provider does things differently, no two people care for their teeth the same way, and no two people have the same oral environment.

The fact is that even with proper brushing and flossing, even I cannot maintain every surface perfectly. Periodic professional prophylaxis is still hugely beneficial and highly recommended. It's also 100% covered by pretty much every insurance. That should be noted double because no insurance will pay for ANYTHING that is not directly linked to a diagnosis problem, or hugely beneficial with respect to preventative care. So if you don't take a dental professional's word, take the payment schedule of your insurance company, they don't throw out money willy nilly. They don't even pay entitled dentists a good portion of the time!

Quote from Approach : I do not believe they the poster said it replaces flossing, but for some people a waterpik is more important than flossing. In my case if I only floss and brush in between cleanings my gums bleed. Yet if I waterpik and brush without flossing, my gums hardly bleed at all.

You should see your dentist or hygienist to review proper brushing and flossing technique. This product merely helps you clean but isn't needed if proper technique is used.

Quote from yourameh : I'm not about to go hunting for studies because I'm telling you this as a dentist and if you don't want to take my knowledge as true, then that's you're choice. If you were my patient, I might spend the time to do so. This product is helpful for the average person because I'm not going to lie, maybe 10% of my patients properly clean their teeth. I'm lucky if I can get them all to just pop the floss through each contact one or two times a week. Doing a simple pop through will help at the direct contact while this product can possibly do some good for the rest of the area between the teeth and the gums. You can probably do better with just regular floss and good technique. The whole point of my message is to explain to those buying this product that it does not, cannot, and will not take the place of flossing with proper technique. It's merely a tool (that's not really needed) to help you clean your teeth.

So there is no evidence that the water flosser is inferior to regular flossing. Given that you say that 90% of your patients don't have the technique to properly floss their teeth, are you saying a device that is incredibly easy to use and demonstrably removes food from someone's teeth is worse than not using it? I don't see how that can possibly be the case. What has been your experience with a water flosser to disregard it outright. Have you ever used a water flosser?

Small sideline,as for your not taking the time unless paid, I find that a refreshing and noble difference between the IT industry and the healthcare industry. IT people do take the time whether paid or not just to help someone else out.

Quote from yourameh : Edit: I did a really quick search and came up with this study: http://goo.gl/TuadA Clear statistically significant evidence that proper prophylaxis(cleanings) and home care lead to improvement. Over the past decade or so, the entire dental field has made a really big push towards evidence based dentistry. This is wonderful and I commend you for your inquiry, but it should also be noted how incredibly difficult dental clinical research is. Every provider does things differently, no two people care for their teeth the same way, and no two people have the same oral environment. The fact is that even with proper brushing and flossing, even I cannot maintain every surface perfectly. Periodic professional prophylaxis is still hugely beneficial and highly recommended. It's also 100% covered by pretty much every insurance. That should be noted double because no insurance will pay for ANYTHING that is not directly linked to a diagnosis problem, or hugely beneficial with respect to preventative care. So if you don't take a dental professional's word, take the payment schedule of your insurance company, they don't throw out money willy nilly. They don't even pay entitled dentists a good portion of the time!

It's about time that dentistry became evidence based. For decades, since the barbershop days, dentistry has been hearsay. Dentist list off things as facts that simply aren't. So I applaud this recent move in the dental industry.

Thanks for that study. There has been other work, some more recent, that have concluded that many accepted assumptions in the dental care industry simply have no basis in reality. Included among that are regular cleanings and flossing. So "Periodic professional prophylaxis" may be highly recommended but the science is simply not there to prove that it is "hugely beneficial". Jiffy Lube also highly recommends that the oil in my car be changed every 3000 miles. My car manufacturer begs to disagree.

"The research evidence is not of sufficient quality to reach any conclusions regarding the beneficial and adverse effects of routine scaling and polishing for periodontal health and regarding the effects of providing this intervention at different time intervals."

http://www.nature.com/ebd/journal...0317a.html

"Available evidence (two other studies) fails to demonstrate any benefit in the prevention of gingivitis from further dental prophylaxis at interval used for recall examinations."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19816459

"In light of the results of this comprehensive literature search and critical analysis, it is concluded that a routine instruction to use floss is not supported by scientific evidence."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19138178

In the end, I think the only reliable conclusion is that there hasn't been enough science done to prove whether or not flossing and regular cleanings do anything at all to effect outcome. It may be recommended by the ADA, but there is nothing to back up those recommendations. So at best it's an opinion. Not a fact.

Like I said. I old school floss and use a water flosser. Both may not do any good, but I don't think they can hurt.

Quote from travfar : So there is no evidence that the water flosser is inferior to regular flossing. Given that you say that 90% of your patients don't have the technique to properly floss their teeth, are you saying a device that is incredibly easy to use and demonstrably removes food from someone's teeth is worse than not using it? I don't see how that can possibly be the case. What has been your experience with a water flosser to disregard it outright. Have you ever used a water flosser? Small sideline,as for your not taking the time unless paid, I find that a refreshing and noble difference between the IT industry and the healthcare industry. IT people do take the time whether paid or not just to help someone else out. It's about time that dentistry became evidence based. For decades, since the barbershop days, dentistry has been hearsay. Dentist list off things as facts that simply aren't. So I applaud this recent move in the dental industry. Thanks for that study. There has been other work, some more recent, that have concluded that many accepted assumptions in the dental care industry simply have no basis in reality. Included among that are regular cleanings and flossing. So "Periodic professional prophylaxis" may be highly recommended but the science is simply not there to prove that it is "hugely beneficial". Jiffy Lube also highly recommends that the oil in my car be changed every 3000 miles. My car manufacturer begs to disagree. "The research evidence is not of sufficient quality to reach any conclusions regarding the beneficial and adverse effects of routine scaling and polishing for periodontal health and regarding the effects of providing this intervention at different time intervals." http://www.nature.com/ebd/journal...0317a.html "Available evidence (two other studies) fails to demonstrate any benefit in the prevention of gingivitis from further dental prophylaxis at interval used for recall examinations." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19816459 "In light of the results of this comprehensive literature search and critical analysis, it is concluded that a routine instruction to use floss is not supported by scientific evidence." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19138178 In the end, I think the only reliable conclusion is that there hasn't been enough science done to prove whether or not flossing and regular cleanings do anything at all to effect outcome. It may be recommended by the ADA, but there is nothing to back up those recommendations. So at best it's an opinion. Not a fact. Like I said. I old school floss and use a water flosser. Both may not do any good, but I don't think they can hurt.

I never said this product is better or worse than floss. Nor did I say it was ineffective. In fact I made the notion that it is effective because it may be easier for some to use properly than flossing is and might be a more effective alternative in their hands if they just cannot floss.

You're absolutely correct in that dentists spit out hearsay left and right, but I did not and do not. Not once did I say that periodic cleanings are required, nor did I say it will definitely improve oral status.

For every study you find that says periodic cleanings are not effective, you can also find one that says it is. This is why I said, "it should also be noted how incredibly difficult dental clinical research is. Every provider does things differently, no two people care for their teeth the same way, and no two people have the same oral environment."

The overwhelming majority of published research out there is worthless and filled with confounds. What I stated above is just one reason why it's so difficult to achieve clinical research results that will hold up to folk like yourself and I.




I'm a dentist, I brush twice a day for two minutes each time and properly, floss once (usually twice) a day properly. In the morning I swish with a fluoride rinse for one minute after brushing and don't eat/drink for 20min. Before sleeping I brush a third time with my high fluoride toothpaste and wear a night guard. I keep my meal instances to a minimum, control my carbohydrate and acidic food intake, and stay away from anything sticky. After eating I swish my mouth out and assure no left over food bits stuck anywhere. I melt Xylitol mints in my mouth several times/day and chew sugar free gum regularly. I clean my own teeth with my scaling tools once/week as well. When I go to the hygienist for prophylaxis and fluoride varnish every 6 months I'm still surprised at what she finds on my teeth. I also continue to have minor gingival problems and caries that I'm managing.

Don't twist my words. I'm not saying that nobody can clean their own teeth better than I can. I just do a pretty thorough job and I still have problem areas. Just like everything else, your dental health is part nature part nurture. Dog's live their whole lives without a clue and seldom get even one carious lesion. Humans aren't as lucky, but some are better off than others. Different demographics have different rates and absolutely nothing is always stable.

Periodic prophylaxis is beneficial for most because most people do not properly clean their teeth. It is beneficial enough to the point where insurance companies cover it 100%. They literally put their money where their mouth is. I'm not saying that this is proof, but it's very compelling that they find it a sound investment in the mouths they are liable for. They would love nothing more than to avoid dishing out $175 every six months for each of their clients.



As for your side note, I'm also in IT and I regularly help everyone and anyone I can help. I'm simply trying to inform people here that this is NOT floss and is NOT a substitute for floss. If you prefer to use this instead of floss or have better results with this or that or both, that's great. That's your personal circumstance. If you were to discuss it with your personal dentist, they could confirm or inform you of anything otherwise. If you don't consider this help, I don't know what is.

Another note: I DO NOT recommend a post prophylaxis polish with the prophy cup and polish paste. I've read a number of studies and spoken to evidence based hygienists about it that agree. It does little or nothing but make your teeth feel smoother. The rationale behind it was to remove the pellicle layer (saliva barrior) over your teeth so that your saliva can produce a new, fresh layer. This is why we say "don't eat or drink for 30min" after you get a cleaning. Evidence suggests that it's actually just grinding off a bit of your enamel (outer later of your tooth) and not really helping you. Again, do not twist my words, I did not say it doesn't remove plaque, stains, or anything else. In fact, a great many providers use this polish procedure as a large portion of their cleaning because the rubber cups can be effective at removing plauqe.


Finally, you missed my entire message despite me clearly stating it. I also do not appreciate your passive aggressive attack. What you do and the advise you take is your choice. I'm merely here to guide your efforts to clean your teeth and inform everyone what the manufacturer of these products will gladly tell you, but does not put it in clear writing on the package. This product is not a substitute for flossing.

If I missed any of your points, misinterpreted, or got anything wrong, I apologize as it's all meaningless because my ultimate message could not be stated more succinctly. I also do not have interest in helping those incapable of being helped. I would read the studies you posted, report the likely numerous confounds, then rebuttal with a set of my own seemingly sound studies, but this would be fruitless. Nobody would benefit, care, or probably even read it. That being said, I would gladly see you for a dental exam and discuss treatment options with you. If you were to decide against my recommendation of periodic cleanings, I would note that in your record and continue to treat you otherwise. You could also always go elsewhere.

Quote from yourameh : Finally, you missed my entire message despite me clearly stating it. I do not appreciate your passive aggressive attack. What you do and the advise you take is your choice. I'm merely here to guide your efforts to clean your teeth to inform everyone what the manufacturer of these products will gladly tell you, but does not put it in clear writing on the package. This product is not a substitute for flossing. If I missed any of your points, misinterpreted, or got anything wrong, I apologize as it's all meaningless because my ultimate message could not be stated more succinctly. I also do not have interest in helping those incapable of being helped.

Passive aggressive attack? I thought we were having a discussion. The it's written in stone attitude doesn't help. As we have both shown, there is no conclusive evidence either way.

I guess you missed my point entirely. You can "guide" as much as you want, but let's not mistake your guidance for fact. It's just hearsay. There's no basis in science to support it. So I appreciate your take on things. But in the end it's just an opinion, nothing more.