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Gun Incident Mega Thread - Post All Gun Incidents Here

Krazen1211 9,023 425 January 23, 2013 at 10:49 AM
http://www.bradenton.com/2013/01/...after.html

Manatee County sheriff's deputies continue to investigate an incident in which a man fatally shot an alleged robbery suspect Sunday night at his Bradenton home.

Two men were sitting in the carport of a residence in the 4200 block of 24th Street West about 10:20 p.m. when three suspects, dressed in black and wearing masks, approached on foot. James Brady, 26, allegedly pointed a handgun at one of the victims, ordering him to the ground, according to the sheriff's office.

That's when the victim, who has a conceal-carry license, pulled out a handgun, according to Dave Bristow, sheriff's office spokesman. Gunfire exchanged between the two men



Score one more for the good guys.

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#8386
Quote from Crushinator5000 View Post :
You don't like their system, but the fact remains: 15th most heavily armed civilian population in the world. Evidently, ordinary Germans are quite capable of obtaining legal firearms if they want them.
To make the 15th relevant, how many sovereign countries have provisions for private firearm ownership? When you consider Germany is about the size of some US states (in fact, smaller in land mass than some states... About half the size of Texas), it must be based on saturation and not by number of firearms owned or firearm owners.

Looking up the ranking, that is firearms per 100 residents, not based on number of owners at all. For example, Sweden (which is ranked 9th) has an ownership saturation of 6.5% of the population owning firearms (despite their population saturation being 31.6 firearms per 100 people).

The way people own firearms and how many they typically own them is relevant for this sort of thing. The same chart shows a USA population saturation of 112.6 firearms per 100 persons, yet we have an ownership of roughly 30% of our population.

The fact that the vast majority of countries, and many of them repressive, deny their citizenry weapons does not make Germany any less restrictive or palatable in the way they manage firearms.
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Last edited by JackHandey July 23, 2016 at 10:22 AM
Personally, I'm interested in keeping other people from building Utopia, because the more you believe you can create heaven on earth the more likely you are to set up guillotines in the public square to hasten the process. -- James Lileks
#8387
Quote from cruizerfish View Post :
Balcony Man: "You cat you. you're a cat"
Thanks for the transcript, but I gotta wonder if maybe the translation was a bit too literal! I don't speak German, but...maybe Balcony Man actually said "You cat you. You're a cat!" laugh out loud

Anyway, clearly, the situation was chaotic, with reports of multiple shooters (which turned out to be wrong), reports of "automatic weapons fire" (which turned out to be wrong), reports of shooting incidents elsewhere in the city (which turned out to be wrong), reports that the shooters had rifles (which turned out to be wrong).

That's just the way it is with realtime reporting, though. People want to hear about what's going on to the best of our knowledge as it happens, even if that information may prove to be wrong later. I don't have a problem with people talking about what's going on based on initial reports as long as people remember that the initial reports are often wrong.

Or, to put it another way...want to know something about what's going on right now? Internet or cable news. Want to know the facts of what happened? Read the newspaper, probably 5-7 days after the event. Both have their place, imo.
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I work two jobs: one unionized, the other not. At the unionized job, I have fair pay, fringe benefits, and rights on the job. At the non-union job, I have none of the above. That's why I proudly carry my union card with me wherever I go.
#8388
Quote from JackHandey View Post :
The fact that the vast majority of countries, and many of them repressive, deny their citizenry weapons does not make Germany any less restrictive or palatable in the way they manage firearms.
You're right that % of the population owning firearms is a relevant statistic as well. I wouldn't say that the "vast majority of countries deny their citizenry weapons." Most countries either allow people to own firearms of some kind (in many Asian countries, for instance, you can't have a pistol but you can have a rifle), or they have no real central government to stop people from getting the weapons they want (pretty much all of Africa).

But neither number tells us whether it's hard to get a license. From the guns per capita number, it could be as you say--just a few, who own all the guns. From the gun owners per country number, it could be that most people just plain don't want a gun. Are we to force people who don't want guns to own firearms to "democratize" gun ownership?

Most relevant to me would be how hard it is to get a permit if you want one. From the wiki, "target shooting" counts as a "need," but again there are rules. You have to be a member of a gun club, you have to have spent a year firing regularly at the gun club's range before you can get a license to buy your own gun, etc...

IMO, requiring a "learner's permit" before granting a "driver's license" is reasonable and a good thing.
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#8389
Quote from Crushinator5000 View Post :
Thanks for the transcript, but I gotta wonder if maybe the translation was a bit too literal! I don't speak German, but...maybe Balcony Man actually said "You cat you. You're a cat!" laugh out loud
That's SD's robo-cencorship at work. laugh out loud

Click the link for the uncensored transcript, you may also click on other transcript submissions as well. IIRC, that was the best one.

Quote :
Anyway, clearly, the situation was chaotic, with reports of multiple shooters (which turned out to be wrong), reports of "automatic weapons fire" (which turned out to be wrong), reports of shooting incidents elsewhere in the city (which turned out to be wrong), reports that the shooters had rifles (which turned out to be wrong).

That's just the way it is with realtime reporting, though. People want to hear about what's going on to the best of our knowledge as it happens, even if that information may prove to be wrong later. I don't have a problem with people talking about what's going on based on initial reports as long as people remember that the initial reports are often wrong.

Or, to put it another way...want to know something about what's going on right now? Internet or cable news. Want to know the facts of what happened? Read the newspaper, probably 5-7 days after the event. Both have their place, imo.
I agree. This appears to be the actions of a disphoric* individual.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


*disclaimer - I am making a sincere effort to be 'PC' here; if someone feels the need to attack me for feeling otherwise. All I have to say is, "I am Balcony Man! And you are a cat."
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#8390
Quote from Crushinator5000 View Post :
The shooter also shouted "**ck Turks!"

And he admired Anders Breivik, based on a police search of his parent's house.

And he...freakin' used a picture of Breivik as his own WhatsApp photo...wtf?

And who launched his rampage on the anniversary of Breivik's attack, which was a slaughter of kids motivated by right-wing, white-supremacist propaganda. The Munich shooter was widely reported to have targeted kids.

This is a math problem. If you don't know the name or ethnicity of the killer, but you do know the above...any logical person would conclude that the killer was a right wing extremist who admired Breivik and wanted to replicate his massacre.

This morning, of course, we have more information. The Munich shooter didn't admire Breivik because of his racist ideology. He admired him because he killed a lot of kids.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/w...-1.2722366

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/munich-k...ce-1572159
Frankly, I have never bought on to the desire on both sides for murderers to be on the "them" side instead of the "us" side. Murderers are evil, regardless of political ideology. There are evil people from all walks of life.

My point was to highlight the desire of CBS to categorize the shooter as one of the "them" before they actually had the facts.
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#8391
Quote from Crushinator5000 View Post :
You're right that % of the population owning firearms is a relevant statistic as well. I wouldn't say that the "vast majority of countries deny their citizenry weapons." Most countries either allow people to own firearms of some kind (in many Asian countries, for instance, you can't have a pistol but you can have a rifle), or they have no real central government to stop people from getting the weapons they want (pretty much all of Africa).

But neither number tells us whether it's hard to get a license. From the guns per capita number, it could be as you say--just a few, who own all the guns. From the gun owners per country number, it could be that most people just plain don't want a gun. Are we to force people who don't want guns to own firearms to "democratize" gun ownership?

Most relevant to me would be how hard it is to get a permit if you want one. From the wiki, "target shooting" counts as a "need," but again there are rules. You have to be a member of a gun club, you have to have spent a year firing regularly at the gun club's range before you can get a license to buy your own gun, etc...

IMO, requiring a "learner's permit" before granting a "driver's license" is reasonable and a good thing.
Then you'd be setting a precedent for similar regulation of speech, religion, etc. Why not require a permit for a religion? Can you demonstrate a need to be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian? Maybe you can only worship at one of the approved mosques/synagogues/churches for a certain number of times per year or you lose your Muslim/Jewish/Christian license. What about speech? Assembly? Search & seizure? Can you demonstrate a need to not be cavity searched by the federal government? Or a need to not be forced to self-incriminate?

BTW, why does the left always talk about forcing people to own guns? I have yet to see someone actually advocate for that.
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#8392
Quote from AlfredoGarcia View Post :
Then you'd be setting a precedent for similar regulation of speech, religion, etc. Why not require a permit for a religion? Can you demonstrate a need to be Muslim, Jewish, or Christian?
To qualify, one would need to establish their status of being moderate.
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#8393
Quote from Crushinator5000 View Post :
IMO, requiring a "learner's permit" before granting a "driver's license" is reasonable and a good thing.
As long as classes are inexpensive and easy to access, not a problem. I'm all for training, as long as it isn't used to block access. But, Germany goes waaaaaay beyond that.
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#8394
Quote from cruizerfish View Post :
That's SD's robo-cencorship at work. laugh out loud
Haha! Ya, I just noticed that mine got converted as well! LMAO
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#8395
Quote from Crushinator5000 View Post :
You really ought to check the facts before spouting off.

Germany is the 15th most "armed" civilian population in the world. It's easy for sane, competent adults to get weapons in Germany--the only difference between there and here is that over there, you need to pass a real competency test, a serious background check, and you can't legally get a gun if you're a lunatic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun...rrent_laws
http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/germany
Did you read your own sources?
You can't carry a gun in public. In order to get a usable gun (I mean that you get to carry it with you so you can actually use it in a defensive situation) you have to get a carry permit. "Carry permits are usually only issued to persons with a particular need for carrying a firearm. This includes some private security personnel and persons living under a raised threat-level like celebrities and politicians."

So what if they have the 15th highest amount of guns. Does you no good if only politicians or security can get them and you have to have permission to carry it, with permission only granted to politicians and security. The regular civilian population is not armed.
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Last edited by Novakingwai July 23, 2016 at 07:56 PM
An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone
#8396
Germany grapples with enigma of Munich gunman

Quote :
While investigators have ruled out a link to IS, their probe has turned up another dark scenario—of a violence-fixated youth who tempted his young prey to their fate via the internet.
...

But if a clearer picture is emerging of how Sonboly planned the killing, his motive remains unclear.


Of Shiite Muslim origin, Sonboly appears to have converted to Christianity, hence his first name David.
...

They found documents about far-right fanatic Anders Behring Breivik who murdered 77 people in Norway in 2011—a massacre that occurred exactly five years to the day before the Munich shootings.
...

One idea put forward by the mass circulation newspaper Bild suggests Sonboly had been bullied by Turks at school, and wanted to take revenge against foreigners.

The dead included three Turks, two of whom had dual German nationality, a Hungarian, a Kosovan, a Greek and an individual who was stateless, according to the latest figures.

Video footage from Friday also apparently shows Sonboly on a car park roof in a heated exchange with a man on a nearby balcony.

"I'm German, I was born here," the assailant replies after the man swore at him, using curse words for foreigners.


http://www.thelocal.de/20160724/g...ich-gunman
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Joined Oct 2007
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#8397
Quote from JackHandey View Post :
As long as classes are inexpensive and easy to access, not a problem. I'm all for training, as long as it isn't used to block access. But, Germany goes waaaaaay beyond that.
Give them an inch, and then they'll require classes that cost $5000 and take six months. And they'll make those classes illegal in their city/state, but, hey, you are free to take the class in a different city/state, if that city/state allows the classes. Or maybe they'll just ban shooting ranges. What's that? You need shooting ranges to pass your class? Tough luck.
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#8398
Quote from Deusxmachina View Post :
Give them an inch, and then they'll require classes that cost $5000 and take six months. And they'll make those classes illegal in their city/state, but, hey, you are free to take the class in a different city/state, if that city/state allows the classes. Or maybe they'll just ban shooting ranges. What's that? You need shooting ranges to pass your class? Tough luck.
You must mean Chicago,
Quote :
After the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals overturned Chicago's ban on gun ranges in 2012, the city rewrote the law but added restrictions that made it difficult to find a location in the city to open a range, gun advocates said. That case still has not been resolved.
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