Lenovo 14" U410 IdeaPad, 3rd Gen i7-3537U, 2.0GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HD + 24GB SSD, 1GB Graphics, Win 8 - $699 after $100 off, Costco.com only from 1/31-2/24.

Quote from handisnacks : Lenovo (used to be IBM) has hardly any mobile phones on the market in the U.S. For all purposes, they are primarily a PC/Laptop manufacturer. I think they have 1 current tablet on the market, maybe not even that. Either way it's not really a fair comparison in the first place. Statistics for you (Apple's mobile division): Apple currently only has ~25% of the cell phone market with it's iPhone. Apple currently has ~50% market share with it's iPad. (These numbers above are the only reason why they are still around) OSX is currently only being run on 7% of computers worldwide. <--- That's nothing. But they can still turn a profit, since they price gouge every person who buys one. I find it funny when reading these mobile computing statistics that Apple is only included WHEN they include iPad sales. iPads are not computers, and shouldn't be compared to laptops.

Thanks for providing all the info. I'm not really sure how that's relevant to profit, since that is what I was talking about. All I mentioned was profit. Now, can you please provide all the relevant 'profit' figures, since nothing I mentioned was even remotely related to market share.

People are too ignorant about the actual costs of the hardware they buy. Hence, Apple gets away with gouging people, and Lenovo gets away with selling crap. There is a middle ground. Look up the bill of materials on Apple's equipment - you'll be amazed at how little they pay for those retina screens. Then you should immediately be asking "why the hell can't other manufacturers include decent screens if they're that cheap".

For all the uniformed that don't know how inexpensive the displays are that we should be getting in most laptops in 2013, see the following. Apple isn't the only one gouging.

http://9to5mac.com/2012/05/16/rep...-customer/
http://mashable.com/2012/09/19/ip...ring-cost/
http://www.cultofmac.com/201118/w...9-feature/

Quote from aggravated : At this point, I'm going to assume that Lenovo tries to gain all their profit margin in their laptops through craptastic screens. If enough people don't settle for that trash maybe one day manufacturers will get a clue. Note to Lenovo, et al....Apple is also the most profitable PC maker in the world. They didn't get there by putting trashing screens in 95% of their products.

YOU ARE TOXIC!

2 cores and shotty dedicated gpu

pass

Quote from emjlr3 : 2 cores and shotty dedicated gpu pass

What are you expecting? In terms of performance this beats out the standard MB/MBP/MBA variant. And costs much less.

What a shame this tread got hijacked by the same sad and pitiful troll, who goes on every laptop thread and complains about his personal single issue of screen resolution. What a childish thing. Every laptop has some balance of features and price. I notice that people who wouldn't buy something other than an i7 don't go on every i5 laptop thread and whine. I notice that people who want an ultrabook don't go on every 6lb laptop thread and hijack and whine. there are a dozen other examples of tradeoffs.
What you never see this troll do is point to a comparable price machine with the same specs and their holy grail of their one pet peeve.


Also "Aggravated" actually used the identical languages as another poster meaning he has two names here because people have gotten so sick of his trolling.

1. Lenovo is massively profitable and has grown phenomenally and now is the number two pc maker in the world, blowing HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, etc out of the water. It deserves that position because it has a very solid line of both premium business class machines and an excellent line of consumer machines.

To claim Lenovo is being hurt by using a screen that allows them to price in the sweet spot is ignorant.

2. this is an excellent laptop for the price with one exception, and it isn't the screen, it is the wifi. If "Aggravated" weren't around that serious consideration would have come up. If you are on a 3 mbps, and in a small home, and/or live in an area without a lot of 2.5 MHz completion, this wont be an issue. If you are used to streaming video in a multiroom home and can see a number of neighbor's 2.5 ghz routers, this may not be the best bet. This is exacerbated by Lenovo's use of bios whitelist meaning replacing their card with a 2.5/5 Ghz is considerable hassle compared with other makers.

I have one of these. I have replaced the card with a 2.5/5 n intel 6xxx. the very latest bios is cracked and around if you care to google, but for the average user the hassle, time and risk is considerable.

One other point on the video card. There is a very good system integrated which allows you to preset which programs use the add on and otherwise you default to the 4000. Mid level games play quite well with this system and you fall back to the 4000 which saves you battery and which is an excellent integrated fro most tasks. You obviously are not buying this to play high end games.

It is a solid build, excellent value.

The fact that this is Costco makes it even more compelling because you can try it out and if you find the wifi wanting you can return it easily. I would not buy this from a company that doesn't allow easy returns due to the wifi.

Quote from aero : What a shame this tread got hijacked by the same sad and pitiful troll, who goes on every laptop thread and complains about his personal single issue of screen resolution. What a childish thing. Every laptop has some balance of features and price. I notice that people who wouldn't buy something other than an i7 don't go on every i5 laptop thread and whine. I notice that people who want an ultrabook don't go on every 6lb laptop thread and hijack and whine. there are a dozen other examples of tradeoffs. What you never see this troll do is point to a comparable price machine with the same specs and their holy grail of their one pet peeve. Also "Aggravated" actually used the identical languages as another poster meaning he has two names here because people have gotten so sick of his trolling. 1. Lenovo is massively profitable and has grown phenomenally and now is the number two pc maker in the world, blowing HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, etc out of the water. It deserves that position because it has a very solid line of both premium business class machines and an excellent line of consumer machines. To claim Lenovo is being hurt by using a screen that allows them to price in the sweet spot is ignorant. 2. this is an excellent laptop for the price with one exception, and it isn't the screen, it is the wifi. If "Aggravated" weren't around that serious consideration would have come up. If you are on a 3 mbps, and in a small home, and/or live in an area without a lot of 2.5 MHz completion, this wont be an issue. If you are used to streaming video in a multiroom home and can see a number of neighbor's 2.5 ghz routers, this may not be the best bet. This is exacerbated by Lenovo's use of bios whitelist meaning replacing their card with a 2.5/5 Ghz is considerable hassle compared with other makers. I have one of these. I have replaced the card with a 2.5/5 n intel 6xxx. the very latest bios is cracked and around if you care to google, but for the average user the hassle, time and risk is considerable. One other point on the video card. There is a very good system integrated which allows you to preset which programs use the add on and otherwise you default to the 4000. Mid level games play quite well with this system and you fall back to the 4000 which saves you battery and which is an excellent integrated fro most tasks. You obviously are not buying this to play high end games. It is a solid build, excellent value. The fact that this is Costco makes it even more compelling because you can try it out and if you find the wifi wanting you can return it easily. I would not buy this from a company that doesn't allow easy returns due to the wifi.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking too. Might pick this one up to see how it goes.

When was your U410 manufactured? I've read that Lenovo claimed that the WiFi issue had been resolved for all models made after July. Not sure if that's true though.

Quote from aggravated : Are you saying the only two options are to overpay for a decent screen, or go with typical Lenovo-type garbage? Are you saying a decent screen shouldn't be available for $700? Is that your statement - "No device can have a decent screen for $700". Perhaps you missed the point Mr. Genius.

No, I did not misunderstand the point. When did Apple sell a laptop with a great screen/hardware for $700...oh, hmm...never?

Yet you decided to flame Lenovo and this specific product by comparing it to Apple and how they are still profitable. Frankly your initial comment made no sense, and your subsequent posts continue to lack any coherent thought process.

As for getting $700 laptops with a good screen...sure, it is possible, but at a $700 price tag, it is always going to be a tradeoff between different components. You put in a 1920x1080 screen into a laptop like that and it will be really shit for $700 because of all the other hardware they would have to get rid of. There is a reason why the better spec laptops tend to also have the better screens/upgrades.

If we were debating over a $1000 laptop, then it would be absolutely fair to blast a company for pushing low res screens on their product.

Quote from aggravated : For all the uniformed that don't know how inexpensive the displays are that we should be getting in most laptops in 2013, see the following. Apple isn't the only one gouging. http://9to5mac.com/2012/05/16/rep...-customer/ http://mashable.com/2012/09/19/ip...ring-cost/ http://www.cultofmac.com/201118/w...9-feature/

Wow, I don't even know where to begin. I'd suggest you begin by reading up on Economies of Scale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale . Then understand how Apple has successfully leveraged its huge manufacturing scale and demand for product to squeeze exceptionally low costs on components thanks to economies of scale...something that is not available to that extent to other PC/laptop makers. That will also then explain to you why none of the really well spec'd Android tablets have ever been all that price competitive against the iPad.

Then, try to realize, that the larger the screen, the more expensive it gets to make because yields go down as screen size goes up. So making a 10" screen at high res is still easier and cheaper than making a 13" or 15" screen. Those extra costs add up to quite a bit.

Once you get to that point, try to get out of your head, your naive and stupid notion that any product is worth the sum of the "price" of all its hardware components. There are so many intangibles that you cannot account for in that model, that "cost" the company and as a result trickle down into product costs.

And finally, realize that companies don't exist for charity. They have every right to demand and expect a profit from their sales. So if Lenovo or Apple's product costs you more than it costs them to build, please try not to seem so offended. The market will decide the price of products and if they price too high, their product will fail and they will have to adjust their price or product accordingly.

I hope this explanation helps you find a happier place in life with less anger issues against all the laptop manufacturers out there in the world. They aren't evil, and they aren't trying to rip you off. They're just trying to make a living...same as you and me.

PS - I found it hilarious that the links you provided, basically state that the new Retina displays cost more than a 100% over the previous displays...$68 to $140 per screen. And before you say...well they should increase the price by $50-$60 and just provide a better screen...go back up and re-read all that I wrote. Then also consider that the higher resolution screen needs a better GPU to drive all those pixels and a better processor so the laptop doesn't feel sluggish. And that's before we even delve into the fact that Windows has atrocious DPI scaling, and will look terrible on a computer with a "retina" like resolution.

Quote from orion2001 : Wow, I don't even know where to begin. I'd suggest you begin by reading up on Economies of Scale: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale . Then understand how Apple has successfully leveraged its huge manufacturing scale and demand for product to squeeze exceptionally low costs on components thanks to economies of scale...something that is not available to that extent to other PC/laptop makers. That will also then explain to you why none of the really well spec'd Android tablets have ever been all that price competitive against the iPad.

Wow, it must suck to be the #2 PC manufacturer in the world and not have the benefits of Economy of Scale. Apple is so lucky. Lenovo must pay out the ying yang for all these fantastic HD screens at full wholesale costs. Gotta be crazy expensive.

Quote from orion2001 : Then, try to realize, that the larger the screen, the more expensive it gets to make because yields go down as screen size goes up. So making a 10" screen at high res is still easier and cheaper than making a 13" or 15" screen. Those extra costs add up to quite a bit.

What??!! Bigger screens costs more to make??? I call BS.

Quote from orion2001 : Once you get to that point, try to get out of your head, your naive and stupid notion that any product is worth the sum of the "price" of all its hardware components. There are so many intangibles that you cannot account for in that model, that "cost" the company and as a result trickle down into product costs.

You must be an economics major. I thought marketing, R&D, etc were free to everyone. Who knew?

Quote from orion2001 : And finally, realize that companies don't exist for charity. They have every right to demand and expect a profit from their sales. So if Lenovo or Apple's product costs you more than it costs them to build, please try not to seem so offended. The market will decide the price of products and if they price too high, their product will fail and they will have to adjust their price or product accordingly.

Now this blows my mind. You're telling me all these manufacturers are trying to make...PROFIT? Whoa! Wowzers! Nobel winner here folks! Guess what, just because the market will pay it doesn't mean the market should. Got that? Enlightenment for the masses can actually effect change to our benefit if they realized the pathetic value of what they're getting for their money. But no, they don't. Hence, Apple.

Quote from orion2001 : PS - I found it hilarious that the links you provided, basically state that the new Retina displays cost more than a 100% over the previous displays...$68 to $140 per screen. And before you say...well they should increase the price by $50-$60 and just provide a better screen...go back up and re-read all that I wrote.

Yup, economies of scale can only apply to Apple and their 7% market share. EACH of the top three OEMs sell millions upon millions more units a year, and are unable to find some way to leverage Economies of Scale for better screens. Really? REALLY? Are you really that stupid? If not, you're just astonishingly ignorant. And it's that willful ignorance that allows manufacturers to sell substandard products, even at costs much less than Apples.

Quote from orion2001 : Then also consider that the higher resolution screen needs a better GPU to drive all those pixels and a better processor so the laptop doesn't feel sluggish.

You're saying you need discreet graphics and a "high-end" processor to drive a 1080p display. WHAT THE HELL?? A DAMN ARM PROCESSOR CAN DO THIS YOU #$%@ Ever seen the iPad? Ever heard of the Nexus10? Man, those high end processors are astounding!! Magic even! You just lost all credibility regarding anything electronic. For this statement alone you need to shut the hell up and get off the internet.

Quote from aero : Also "Aggravated" actually used the identical languages as another poster meaning he has two names here because people have gotten so sick of his trolling.

Nope, sorry, only one. Apparently I'm not alone. You must be disappointed.

Quote from aero : 1. Lenovo is massively profitable and has grown phenomenally and now is the number two pc maker in the world, blowing HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, etc out of the water. It deserves that position because it has a very solid line of both premium business class machines and an excellent line of consumer machines.

So, you're either a stock holder or an employee. Because no one else could publicly say Lenovo's junk is better than everyone else's junk. One's shit has nuts in it, the other has corn, you can have your preference but it's still shit.

Quote from aero : To claim Lenovo is being hurt...

You lack reading comprehension. I never said this. Re-read, or get someone intelligent to read it to you.

Btw, I've owned two Lenovo laptops this past year. Both junk, both needed repairs (hard disk, wifi, trackpad). We just began contracts and have ordered hundreds at work - laptops, desktops, all-in-ones. It's downright appalling how many are defective out of the box. We have a Lenovo tech onsite every week to repair and replace equipment, and we just started purchasing from them. Quality my ass.

Quote from aggravated : Now this blows my mind. You're telling me all these manufacturers are trying to make...PROFIT? Whoa! Wowzers! Nobel winner here folks! Guess what, just because the market will pay it doesn't mean they should. Got that? Enlightenment for the masses can actually effect change to our benefit if they realized the pathetic value of what they're getting for their money. But no, they don't. Hence, Apple.

I can't even be bothered any more. You are the perfect role model for every moron on this planet. Yeah, lack of enlightenment of the masses is what's making Apple, Lenovo etc., rich ...and this after you state that you understand the concept of Supply and Demand....the irony of it all is too much to take. Thanks for the amusement...hold on tight to that tin foil hat of yours, you're going to need it a lot as you go through life!

Quote from orion2001 : I can't even be bothered any more. You are the perfect role model for every moron on this planet. Yeah, lack of enlightenment of the masses is what's making Apple, Lenovo etc., rich ...and this after you state that you understand the concept of Supply and Demand....the irony of it all is too much to take. Thanks for the amusement...hold on tight to that tin foil hat of yours, you're going to need it a lot as you go through life!

The trumpet call of a defeated fool.

And you are the perfect role model for the idiots that will continue to provide great demand for these crappy resolution displays (don't worry though, Lenovo will be happy to supply them to you for the next 20 years, because they've only got your best interests in mind!)

By the way, next time you get a laptop or tablet, make sure it's got an i7 with a GTX 650 in it so it doesn't "struggle" with that hi-res 1366x768 display!

It's up on the Costco website now:

http://www.costco.com/.product.10...4-_-lenovo