The Voter Fraud That ‘Never Happens’ Keeps Coming Back

Quote from DJPlayer : actually I'm from Pa so I'm pretty familiar with this..

I'm from PA as well. I do credit the lead plaintiff in avoiding perjury for telling the same lies that the leftwingers here are doing.


PA voter ID is in effect starting a month ago actually.

Quote from DJPlayer : actually I'm from Pa so I'm pretty familiar with this.. the argument went on and on and on.. the complaints morphed from one to the other to the other. -First it would cost money (voter ID).. so they made it free -Well what if the person did have a Birth Certificate? so they started accepted numerous other forms -Well what if they didn't have those forms? They would assign someone to help you and get the forms for you. There were even complaints to throw it out b/c the DMV workers weren't educated enough on the rules. The final argument was that it was to difficult for people without transportation to get to DMV at some point within a year. At that point they realized that even if they bused people to the DMV for free it would't be good enough.. Pa voter ID law now takes effect in 2016.

Precisely. The only ones who are actually crying and whining about it are those on the left. The ones who are for it are logically and unemotionally trying to resolve a problem and all those on the left do is throw their arms up and scream "ohhhhhhhhhhhh, but what about the disenfranchised". Seriously, some people need to look in the F'ing mirror.

It's clear that voter fraud exists. That is a well documented fact. The problem is identifying how much of a problem it is or isn't. If there is no method in place to calculate how much of a problem it must be the left's whole argument is that it isn't a problem. It's like asking a dumb, deaf, blind, and quadrapalegic person who is up in the international space station to determine the structural integrity of Hoover dam. It could be completely sound or it could be leaking like a sieve but they wouldn't know and if you don't know it must be all good right

I'm from PA too Actually I think DJ and I are within a stone's throw of each other.

How many incidents of voter fraud will be stopped by a Voter ID law? Until you can answer that question and prove it, I don't want the government to waste money and effort on this.

Quote from LivninSC : It's clear that voter fraud exists. That is a well documented fact. The problem is identifying how much of a problem it is or isn't. If there is no method in place to calculate how much of a problem it must be the left's whole argument is that it isn't a problem. It's like asking a dumb, deaf, blind, and quadrapalegic person who is up in the international space station to determine the structural integrity of Hoover dam. It could be completely sound or it could be leaking like a sieve but they wouldn't know and if you don't know it must be all good right

Until you can prove that it would do any good, don't spend my tax money on it.

Quote from highfloydelity : How many incidents of voter fraud will be stopped by a Voter ID law? Until you can answer that question and prove it, I don't want the government to waste money and effort on this. Until you can prove that it would do any good, don't spend my tax money on it.

How many incidences of gun violence are going to be stopped by the new gun laws?

Quote from empiretc : How many incidences of gun violence are going to be stopped by the new gun laws?

Stawman. I do not advocate for new gun laws.

Quote from highfloydelity : I'm from PA too Actually I think DJ and I are within a stone's throw of each other. How many incidents of voter fraud will be stopped by a Voter ID law? Until you can answer that question and prove it, I don't want the government to waste money and effort on this. Until you can prove that it would do any good, don't spend my tax money on it.

At least 1.

noting that documentation of in-person voter fraud often occurs only when a legitimate voter at the polls hears a fraudulent voter trying to use her name, as happened to a woman in
California in 1994)

Quote from empiretc : How many incidences of gun violence are going to be stopped by the new gun laws?

In 2004 a boy named Mark Lacasse voted under his father's name in the Presidential primary. Naturally he would have been prevented from doing so with a photo voter ID law.

But these people have been cheating for decades.



http://www.nytimes.com/1984/09/09...-vote.html

'Vote early and vote often'' was not just an election-year gag in Brooklyn last week as a grand jury disclosed that cemetery voting and other forms of stuffing the ballot box were not buried with Tammany Hall. Only days before this Tuesday's state primary elections, the jury said it had uncovered systematic and widespread fraud in the primaries in two of the borough's Congressional Districts - or half of Brooklyn - between 1968 and 1982. In one state legislative race, up to 2,000 bogus registrants were discovered; in another, there were 1,000. The results of at least one race were affected, the jury said, and very likely others, because the turnouts in primaries are generally low.


http://www.heritage.org/research/...ersonation

The grand jury report revealed extensive voter registration and voter impersonation fraud in prilmary elections in Brooklyn between 1968 and 1982 that affected races for the U.S. Congress and the New York State Senate and Assembly. Accordling to Holtzman, "[t]he grand jury investigation has uncovered a systematic attack on the integrity of elections in Brooklyn." Holtzman warned that unless there were immediate changes in proceldures, there was "a danger that serious fraud could occur in connection with the upcoming election."[9]
This 14-year conspiracy was detailed by witlnesses who participated in the fraud and were able to describe in great detail how it was accomplished. The grand jury found evidence of fraudulent and illegal practices in "two primary elections for Conlgress held in 1976 and 1982, four primary elecltions for the Assembly in three different assembly districts, three primary elections for the State Senlate in one senatorial district and two elections for state committee in two different districts."[10] For 14 years, the conspirators engaged in practices that included:
the forgery of voter registration cards with the names of fictitious persons, the filing of these cards with the Board of Elections, [and] the recruitment of people to cast multiple votes on behalf of specified candidates using these forged cards or the cards of deceased and other persons.[11]
The grand jury explained that "the ease and boldness with which these fraudulent schemes were carried out shows the vulnerability of our entire electoral process to unscrupulous and fraudlulent manipulation."[12]

Quote from Krazen1211 : But these people have been cheating for decades. http://www.nytimes.com/1984/09/09...-vote.html 'Vote early and vote often'' was not just an election-year gag in Brooklyn last week as a grand jury disclosed that cemetery voting and other forms of stuffing the ballot box were not buried with Tammany Hall. Only days before this Tuesday's state primary elections, the jury said it had uncovered systematic and widespread fraud in the primaries in two of the borough's Congressional Districts - or half of Brooklyn - between 1968 and 1982. In one state legislative race, up to 2,000 bogus registrants were discovered; in another, there were 1,000. The results of at least one race were affected, the jury said, and very likely others, because the turnouts in primaries are generally low. http://www.heritage.org/research/...ersonation The grand jury report revealed extensive voter registration and voter impersonation fraud in prilmary elections in Brooklyn between 1968 and 1982 that affected races for the U.S. Congress and the New York State Senate and Assembly. Accordling to Holtzman, "[t]he grand jury investigation has uncovered a systematic attack on the integrity of elections in Brooklyn." Holtzman warned that unless there were immediate changes in proceldures, there was "a danger that serious fraud could occur in connection with the upcoming election."[9] This 14-year conspiracy was detailed by witlnesses who participated in the fraud and were able to describe in great detail how it was accomplished. The grand jury found evidence of fraudulent and illegal practices in "two primary elections for Conlgress held in 1976 and 1982, four primary elecltions for the Assembly in three different assembly districts, three primary elections for the State Senlate in one senatorial district and two elections for state committee in two different districts."[10] For 14 years, the conspirators engaged in practices that included: the forgery of voter registration cards with the names of fictitious persons, the filing of these cards with the Board of Elections, [and] the recruitment of people to cast multiple votes on behalf of specified candidates using these forged cards or the cards of deceased and other persons.[11] The grand jury explained that "the ease and boldness with which these fraudulent schemes were carried out shows the vulnerability of our entire electoral process to unscrupulous and fraudlulent manipulation."[12]

But, what about the poor and disenfranchised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, couldn't resist

Quote from Krazen1211 : Yes, this woman engaged in both types of fraud. First, absentee voter fraud by voting twice, second, voter impersonation fraud by voting on behalf of another.

Which one are you talking about?

This?

Quote : And in another episode, someone who voted at an Avondale polling place on Election Day claimed to be a woman who already had cast an absentee ballot. “She did not attempt to vote twice,” elections board chairman Tim Burke told the Enquirer. “Someone apparently voted in her name.”

It doesn't say which vote was fraudulent. If it was the absentee vote, then it's not voter impersonation.

Quote : This here is another instance of voter impersonation. The woman died Oct. 1, but the elections board on Oct. 11 received a signed absentee ballot in her name dated Sept. 29. What makes that timetable impossible – and legally problematic – is that her ballot was among roughly 60,000 absentee ballots countywide that were not mailed to voters until Oct. 5. “There’s no way this person voted that ballot,” said elections board member Alex Triantafilou. “On its face, it looks like the husband voted for the deceased wife.” The husband also cast an absentee ballot, in an envelope also signed and dated Sept. 29.

No, that's absentee voter fraud. VoterID will not fix that.

Quote from Krazen1211 : I'm from PA as well. I do credit the lead plaintiff in avoiding perjury for telling the same lies that the leftwingers here are doing. PA voter ID is in effect starting a month ago actually.

there's a couple articles out there.. and to be honest.. this is pretty ridiculous.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/...al_on.html

Quote : Pennsylvania judge sets July trial on disputed voter ID Law A Commonwealth Court judge has scheduled a July trial that could determine the fate of Pennsylvania’s controversial voter ID Law. The July 15 trial before Judge Robert Simpson will center on whether the court should grant a permanent injunction blocking imposition of the law.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/...n-the-law/

Quote : Plaintiffs In Pennsylvania Voter ID Case Ask Judge To Extend Block On The Law PHILADELPHIA (CBS) - The plaintiffs in the voter ID case are set to file papers today asking the Commonwealth Court to extend the block on the voter ID law. It was stopped only for the November election. “Even though there is not a big presidential election, the right to vote is important.” ACLU Legal Director, Vic Walczak says plaintiffs want to extend Judge Robert Simpson’s order halting implementation of voter ID until a final decision in the case, possibly even a decision by the state Supreme Court, is reached. He says it’s important to ensure voters can cast a ballot in the primary and in other elections.

To be honest.. this just pisses me off.. why? Because liberal groups want to block verifying whether is legally allowed to vote or not. There's not even a cost to them if they can't afford it. To only excuse is again.. They don't feel like going to the DMV. But at the same time these same liberal groups support more difficult regulations on gun ownership. The same should hold true for both arguments.. It is fair to make it to difficult to exercise one's constitutional right to own a firearm? We should be able to just walk in and purchase it, with no form of identification whatsoever. I'll give you my name.. but that's all.

During the 2012 presidential election it was decided all everyone would be asked for ID but no required to show it. Why? To get people used to the notion that it's going to be brought up next time. I saw numerous people go ballistic on people at the polls when asked this question (even though they had ID in their pocket). The amusing part was some people refused to show ID, then we told they couldn't vote.. Then they screamed more. But neglected to realize that when it's your first time voting you must show ID. oops.. suddenly the idea they refused to show, was now readily available to view.

Quote from Krazen1211 : But these people have been cheating for decades. http://www.nytimes.com/1984/09/09...-vote.html 'Vote early and vote often'' was not just an election-year gag in Brooklyn last week as a grand jury disclosed that cemetery voting and other forms of stuffing the ballot box were not buried with Tammany Hall. Only days before this Tuesday's state primary elections, the jury said it had uncovered systematic and widespread fraud in the primaries in two of the borough's Congressional Districts - or half of Brooklyn - between 1968 and 1982. In one state legislative race, up to 2,000 bogus registrants were discovered; in another, there were 1,000. The results of at least one race were affected, the jury said, and very likely others, because the turnouts in primaries are generally low. http://www.heritage.org/research/...ersonation The grand jury report revealed extensive voter registration and voter impersonation fraud in prilmary elections in Brooklyn between 1968 and 1982 that affected races for the U.S. Congress and the New York State Senate and Assembly. Accordling to Holtzman, "[t]he grand jury investigation has uncovered a systematic attack on the integrity of elections in Brooklyn." Holtzman warned that unless there were immediate changes in proceldures, there was "a danger that serious fraud could occur in connection with the upcoming election."[9] This 14-year conspiracy was detailed by witlnesses who participated in the fraud and were able to describe in great detail how it was accomplished. The grand jury found evidence of fraudulent and illegal practices in "two primary elections for Conlgress held in 1976 and 1982, four primary elecltions for the Assembly in three different assembly districts, three primary elections for the State Senlate in one senatorial district and two elections for state committee in two different districts."[10] For 14 years, the conspirators engaged in practices that included: the forgery of voter registration cards with the names of fictitious persons, the filing of these cards with the Board of Elections, [and] the recruitment of people to cast multiple votes on behalf of specified candidates using these forged cards or the cards of deceased and other persons.[11] The grand jury explained that "the ease and boldness with which these fraudulent schemes were carried out shows the vulnerability of our entire electoral process to unscrupulous and fraudlulent manipulation."[12]

Both of these are voter registration fraud, or based on registration fraud.

VoterID will not stop registration fraud.

Quote from Krazen1211 : I'm from PA as well.

then you too must be a bitter person, "clinging to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like you or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain your frustrations"

now sure how you can win a state after making a comment like that.. remember though that we're the same place that the black panther voter intimidation, the poll watchers kicked out in Philly and 10x30 ft murals of Obama in voting areas. If voter fraud is occurring, it's no secret which city to visit first.

Quote from Krazen1211 : That's a funny bit of mythology. Penndot issued mailers, flyers, TV advertisements and waivers to ensure that people could get ID. The main plaintiff leftwinger in the case screeched for months about being unable to get an ID before obtaining one in about 12 hours after actually trying to do so. It's 4 years before November 2016 and the leftwingers are still screaming like toddlers. Want another example? Nikki Haley signed South Carolina's voter ID law in May 2011. For 1.5 years, the left wing screamed. Nikki Haley volunteered free transportation to anyone in South Carolina who requested it. Less than 30 people asked. Voter ID went into effect this January and leftwingers are still screaming like toddlers. Of course, that's the way liberals are. Screech about 'disenfranchisement' yet unable to find a shred of proof of it actually occurring. And Godzilla is secretly lurking in the Hudson river.

First, if you actually want to engage in a discussion, quit acting so farking condescending. If you want to be a prick, you can go bitch about everything liberal to someone else.

Second, here are a handful of problems with the voter ID issue:

1) even if free, there are issues with time off from work/family to obtain ID. In places where people rely on public transportation, ID isn't a necessity. Can they do it? Yes. But there will be some who can't/don't want to jump through the hoops. Every discouraged voter is a win for the republicans.
2) old folks who don't go out have increased difficulty getting out to obtain an id they don't need for anything else. Can they do it? Yes. But there will be some who can't/don't want to jump through the hoops. Every discouraged voter is a win for the republicans.
3) poor people tend to move more often (apartments, etc.). Their address on the voter roles may not match their ID. Then they need to show utility bills or some other---problem is, some don't have the utilities in their names if they live with other people.
4) each state has different requirements for getting a birth certificate--some of which cannot be satisfied by the requesting party. No BC, no ID, no vote. http://www.aclu.org/blog/voting-r...ter-id-law
5) free ID? Well what about the birth certificate? That isn't always free.

Quote : Ricky Tyrone Lewis is a 58 year-old Marine Corps veteran. Despite the fact that he was able to offer Wisconsin voting officials proof of his honorable discharge from the Marines, Milwaukee County has been unable to find the record of his birth that he needs in order to obtain a voter ID card.

Quote : Ruthelle Frank is an 84 year-old former elected official who voted in every election for the last 63 years, yet she will be unable to obtain a voter ID unless she pays a fee to obtain a birth certificate from the Wisconsin government — despite the fact that the Constitution explicitly forbids any voter from being charged a fee in order to vote. Worse, because the attending physician at her birth misspelled her name on her original birth certificate, she may need to pay hundreds of dollars in court fees to petition the state judiciary to correct her certificate before she can obtain a voter ID.

Quote : Dorothy Cooper is a 96-year-old African-American woman who says she has voted in every election but one since she became eligible to vote. Yet, when she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was turned away because she did not have a copy of her marriage license. In a subsequent interview, Cooper said that she didn’t even have problems voting in Tennessee “during Jim Crow days” — only now under Voter ID.

Quote : Thelma Mitchell is a 93-year-old woman who cleaned the Tennessee Capitol for 30 years. She never received a birth certificate, however, because she was delivered by a midwife in Alabama in 1918 and there was no record of her birth. When she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was turned away for lack of a birth certificate by a clerk who suggested she could be an illegal immigrant.

Quote : Virginia Lasater is a 91-year-old woman who has been active in political campaigns for 70 years. Because of her advanced age, however, she is no longer able to stand for extended periods of time. When she attempted to obtain a voter ID, she was confronted with lines that stretched for several hours and no place to sit while she waited — forcing her to abandon her effort to obtain an ID due to her physical constraints.

Quote : Rita Platt is a Wisconsin resident who was turned away from her attempt to obtain a voter ID because she required either a birth certificate or a passport to obtain one — both of which can only be obtained if the voter pays a fee. Worse, in Wisconsin, voters must fill out a misleading form which suggests that they cannot obtain the birth certificate they need to obtain a photo ID unless they already have a photo ID.