PayPal Dispute from my Buyer

Quote from CbusGuy : I recently sold an item on eBay for $275. I shipped it with signature verification. The same day that I shipped the item out, the buyer filed a dispute with PayPal that the purchase was unauthorized. I provided the tracking number, and 3 days later the buyer signs for the package. The next day (yesterday) I win the PayPal dispute and the funds are no longer held. Now the buyer who already lost the PayPal dispute has now filed a chargeback and essentially re-opened the same claim. I again provided the shipping information, noted that the package was now delivered with signature verification, and referenced the already-closed PayPal dispute. I think I'm pretty clearly in the right here. The buyer very well may have been hacked or something, but at the risk of sounding like a jerk...that's not my problem. I sympathize with him, but I fail to see how I should be out my merchandise AND the funds that paid for it. The buyer has made no effort to contact me directly to explain or to offer to try to make things right by sending my item back. What's the likelihood of me getting screwed here? I won the first PayPal dispute, but what about the chargeback?

post an update

The exact same thing than OP happened to me a year ago with a canadian buyer (for a $500 item), in the end I provide all that I had for proof of delivery, signature confirmation and even a couple of message exchanges I had with the buyer. I got my money, it was a pain and took like a month but Paypal didn't keep a cent.

Maybe not everyone is as lucky, but I think that as long as you follow the rules and provide all the requested documentation, you'll win most of the cases opened by scammers as unauthorized transactions or Item Not Received as well as chargebacks.

I've read that Item Not As Described disputes can be a totally different story.

r4l3x is 1000X correct. On the Buyers side an Unauthorized Dispute is hard to prove when you sign for the delivery. Item not described, you are screwed.

Quote from MNGuy183 : I had a similar thing happen on half.com (owned by ebay), I sold a text book for $75 and shipped it, the buyer said they never received it. In this case I didn't have any proof of shipping as I shipped media mail but half.com made me issue a refund so I was out the book and got nothing for it. I know things get lost in the mail but I think this buyer was just pissed once he/she realized how slow media mail was, which is what they paid for.

Delivery confirmation - 18 cents when purchased online.

Quote from BargainSnatcher : Delivery confirmation - 18 cents when purchased online.

Yeah this was many years ago and it was $1+, I was selling a lot of stuff so I figured it wasn't worth it when I added up how much I would be selling. Turns out it would have been worth it :-)

If chargeback is for unauthorized and you shipped using paypal to paypal confirmed address with signature confirmation you should be covered under seller protection. It is impossible to "win" a chargeback but PayPal should eat it.

Quote from biuevenom : If paypal loses the credit card dispute they will probably deduct the amount in question from the account. Certain disputes on paypal are very hard to win especially if they claim fraud thru the credit issuer. Hopefully op wins though.

Item not as desribed is actually the toughest one to win. Fraud claim is covered under Paypal Seller protection assuming the item was shipped with delivery confirmation to a confirmed address.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps...learn-more

Quote from hmd123 : Yet another reason to use craigslist to sell and only accept cash.

You are right, also on Ebay you have to pay 9% to Ebay and 2.9% to Paypal.
For buying I use Ebay.
For selling you have to see and filter the buyers to be safe.

CL does have a lot of lowballers who are a pain in the arse, some even start arguing when you say no via email which ends up being funny.

I have actually sold my stuff on CL for lower price than Ebay, but after deducting ebay and PP fee, I actually got more on CL.

Quote from Geronemo3 : You are right, also on Ebay you have to pay 9% to Ebay and 2.9% to Paypal. For buying I use Ebay. For selling you have to see and filter the buyers to be safe. CL does have a lot of lowballers who are a pain in the arse, some even start arguing when you say no via email which ends up being funny. I have actually sold my stuff on CL for lower price than Ebay, but after deducting ebay and PP fee, I actually got more on CL.

I still use eBay for selling and view the fees at a "tax" for not having to deal w/ lowballers and being able to reach a nationwide audience. But the trend of buyer fraud and ebay/paypal's lack of support for sellers has me rethinking that. I've noticed an uptick in buyers testing the waters for a scam - wanting to pay with money order, trying to ship to a non-confirmed address, or asking that the signature not be required.

I just bought a camera lens off of Craigslist...I liked the fact that I could meet the seller, inspect and try out the lens prior to purchasing. I'm thinking that the best way to sell on CL is to price it very competitive and then hold firm on your price. A serious buyer will know the market and not waste your time trying to haggle down.

Easiest way to avoid lowballers and timewasters on Craigslist is to hide your email address and not respond to text messages. Some may argue you will lose sales that way but you also don't lose your sanity dealing with text message tough guys.

Quote from hmd123 : I still use eBay for selling and view the fees at a "tax" for not having to deal w/ lowballers and being able to reach a nationwide audience. But the trend of buyer fraud and ebay/paypal's lack of support for sellers has me rethinking that. I've noticed an uptick in buyers testing the waters for a scam - wanting to pay with money order, trying to ship to a non-confirmed address, or asking that the signature not be required. I just bought a camera lens off of Craigslist...I liked the fact that I could meet the seller, inspect and try out the lens prior to purchasing. I'm thinking that the best way to sell on CL is to price it very competitive and then hold firm on your price. A serious buyer will know the market and not waste your time trying to haggle down.

Quote from BreakingTheBank : Easiest way to avoid lowballers and timewasters on Craigslist is to hide your email address and not respond to text messages. Some may argue you will lose sales that way but you also don't lose your sanity dealing with text message tough guys.

It seems 7 out of 10 emails are from scammers, lowballers and people who don't respond back. And if you have a weak market to which no one really buys, then that goes up to 9 out of 10 emails are scams, fakes, phishing, etc. Then when you get a buyer, you have those who want to renegotiate, which is worse. You do the emails/call when you finally get a buyer, explain condition, set a price, and meet. Not meet, inspect, verify everything is true and then come up with BS like, I only could pull this much out of the bank, or will you take this amount as that was all I could get today, blah blah blah. CL has it cons as well, especially for those who value their time and get it wasted by ignorant buyers.

Quote from CbusGuy : What's the likelihood of me getting screwed here? I won the first PayPal dispute, but what about the chargeback?

so what ended up happening?

I've been on both sides of this fence. I've received goods that turned out to be damaged, such as a $100 Banana Republic gift card that had $100 when I received it and then was drained of all money by the time I went to the store and picked out a bunch of clothes. I filed a Paypal dispute, and the seller admitted that she had used her ex-husband's credit card to buy the card, and he had cancelled the transaction, which drained all funds from the card. She is lucky I did not leave negative feedback. What a shady thing for her to do, involving me in that mess and wasting my time.

Then again I sold some stuff on Ebay and the buyer's bank reversed the charge. After some calls to Paypal, I found that the buyer had not had money in his bank account. He promised to pay the balance, but what really happened was I submitted proof of shipping, which is a good reason to ship everything Priority Mail by the way. I had my tracking number, and the buyer did not dispute, so I won the case. I've never had a buyer claim item not as described. Knock on wood, but all my buyers so far have had more than one feedback and a fairly good track record on Ebay. I've also a good track record.

I've always worried about someone trying to scam me using Ebay or Paypal. Hopefully that won't happen, but in these economic times, one never knows how low some people will sink. If I lose money, then I guess I will give up on Ebay.

I haven't had good experiences on Craigslist ever. Just a lot scammers, con artists, non-serious people, trolls, flamers. Other than hate mail and scammers, the only sale I ever made on Craigslist was to someone who then called, came by and picked up a TV for $25, and then wanted a refund two weeks later. It was a hassle and in the end, I gave the TV to my brother and forgot all about Craigslist. As far as I'm concerned it is not a useful site.

Quote from linux_guru : Other than hate mail and scammers, the only sale I ever made on Craigslist was to someone who then called, came by and picked up a TV for $25, and then wanted a refund two weeks later. It was a hassle and in the end, I gave the TV to my brother and forgot all about Craigslist. As far as I'm concerned it is not a useful site.

I have a strict no post sales contact now. I once sold a laptop to someone. It worked fine. He writes me a month later saying it won't turn on. I meet up with him to check it out. I look it over and it doesn't turn on. I then take the battery out and there's a piece of cardboard between the contacts on the battery and the laptop. I take it out, put the battery back in and all is well. I say it's funny how that piece of cardboard got in there like that. I play the good guy and still give him his money back. He then asks me if he can use the laptop to find the address for the local Fry's. I say no. He looks hurt. I ask him to leave. Yes, this was back when I was an idiot and met with CL people at my home. Because of this, I don't respond to anyone I've sold things to. Even when it's to thank me because it's working out so well.