Best No-Effort Investments?

Quote from Steaktaco : OP would be down 8% in 8 days if he would have bought at your suggestion.

Ah yes, because a reasonable time horizon is less than 10 days.

Is investing in a shiny metal really a good idea? My understanding is that the only reason the price on precious metals has risen is because people are afraid to invest in anything else. I remember buying 1 ounce bars of silver for $6 in the late 90s. Adjusting for inflation, I don't see how they are really worth more than $10. It just seems like the price is just really inflated right now.

Quote from Crucible1001 : My understanding is that the only reason the price on precious metals has risen is because people are afraid to invest in anything else. I remember buying 1 ounce bars of silver for $6 in the late 90s. Adjusting for inflation, I don't see how they are really worth more than $10. It just seems like the price is just really inflated right now.

The long-term movements in the PM's are due to hoarding and arbitrage. In the short term, it's speculation in the futures market. It's not supply and demand; there's silver everywhere.

If you *think* they're only worth $10 and spot is $30 and you still have the metal, sell it for a nice profit and short the price. That's one hell of a trade if it works out.

FWIW, for gold to reach it's CPI-inflated price today to match it's peak in 1980, it would have to be around $2300. People never *believe* how high something can climb in price until it's at the unbelievable price. Same thing with stocks, bonds, the price of college tuition, whatever.

OP will be down his entire 401k and Roth IRA following everyone's suggestions, because Obama and liberals are now planning on dipping into American' Citizens 401k's and Roth IRA plans with fees, taxes, and just plain out stealing what you have in your accounts.

Use taxable accounts, make your own portfolio, less fees, more freedoms, more liquid assets, and you can retire much much earlier.

Quote from ViciousTide : OP will be down his entire 401k and Roth IRA following everyone's suggestions, because Obama and liberals are now planning on dipping into American' Citizens 401k's and Roth IRA plans with fees, taxes, and just plain out stealing what you have in your accounts. Use taxable accounts, make your own portfolio, less fees, more freedoms, more liquid assets, and you can retire much much earlier.

source?

Quote from vbt : source?

A growing concern and question at

http://answers.yahoo.com/question...822AAH5qyU

But for evidence see

http://msplaceddemocrat.wordpress...junk-bond/

Quote from ViciousTide : A growing concern and question at http://answers.yahoo.com/question...822AAH5qyU But for evidence see http://msplaceddemocrat.wordpress...junk-bond/

got anything newer than 4 years old?

asdfasdf

Quote from ViciousTide : OP will be down his entire 401k and Roth IRA following everyone's suggestions, because Obama and liberals are now planning on dipping into American' Citizens 401k's and Roth IRA plans with fees, taxes, and just plain out stealing what you have in your accounts. Use taxable accounts, make your own portfolio, less fees, more freedoms, more liquid assets, and you can retire much much earlier.

Never let your financial decisions be skewed by your political viewpoints, especially when they're wrong. Jeremy Siegel's book Stocks For The Long Run shows how investments have done under each political party. Basically, stocks have done better with Democrats in power, bonds better with Republicans.

You could have made a valid argument against pension accounts by pointing how how 401(k) withdrawls are taxed as ordinary income, while stocks and bonds in non-sheltered accounts are taxed at lower dividend and capital gains rates.

Quote from larrymoencurly : Never let your financial decisions be skewed by your political viewpoints, especially when they're wrong. Jeremy Siegel's book Stocks For The Long Run shows how investments have done under each political party. Basically, stocks have done better with Democrats in power, bonds better with Republicans. You could have made a valid argument against pension accounts by pointing how how 401(k) withdrawls are taxed as ordinary income, while stocks and bonds in non-sheltered accounts are taxed at lower dividend and capital gains rates.

Agreeable, but when you are restricted to your own money especially for over 10-30 years of a time frame, red flags should be going up.

The MAJOR risk of stashing your cash into a 401k or Roth IRA is giving up your control and putting restrictions on what you can do with your own money especially at a younger age.

Roth IRA are less restricted because you can withdrawl principal amounts at will that are susceptable then to tax rates, yet you can't withdrawl gains from that principal amount until age 59.5.

So since the government is racking up massive debts and spending/wasting tax payer dollars without any authority to say no to them, one day they will push the edge of the economy, and request an "Emergency" Debt Payoff.

$17 Trillion sit in 401k and Roth IRA accounts, while $16 Trillion in National Debts + over $4 Trillion a year spending sprees....

Do you trust your government never to touch your 401k or Roth IRA gains account for money over the next 40 years?

Do you trust your government never to take your house away from eminent domain?

If your goal is to live off of your investment returns one day at a very young age, 401k and Roth IRA would be against your goal because of the age/ fees/ government control over institution restrictions that they can change at will over your "safe havens" accounts.

The government would take your life if need be, they think they own you.

Quote from ViciousTide : Agreeable, but when you are restricted to your own money especially for over 10-30 years of a time frame, red flags should be going up. The MAJOR risk of stashing your cash into a 401k or Roth IRA is giving up your control and putting restrictions on what you can do with your own money especially at a younger age. Roth IRA are less restricted because you can withdrawl principal amounts at will that are susceptable then to tax rates, yet you can't withdrawl gains from that principal amount until age 59.5. So since the government is racking up massive debts and spending/wasting tax payer dollars without any authority to say no to them, one day they will push the edge of the economy, and request an "Emergency" Debt Payoff. $17 Trillion sit in 401k and Roth IRA accounts, while $16 Trillion in National Debts + over $4 Trillion a year spending sprees.... Do you trust your government never to touch your 401k or Roth IRA gains account for money over the next 40 years? Do you trust your government never to take your house away from eminent domain? If your goal is to live off of your investment returns one day at a very young age, 401k and Roth IRA would be against your goal because of the age/ fees/ government control over institution restrictions that they can change at will over your "safe havens" accounts. The government would take your life if need be, they think they own you.

Does that mean you're you against the death penalty?

I don't know what will happen in the future, but when has withdrawl of Roth IRA principal (contributions) been subject to taxation, unless you spend it on something that's subject to sales or property tax?

$17 in Roth and 401(k) accounts vs. $16T in federal debt are about as comparable as chewing food 32 times because a person has 32 teeth. Also look at the interest payments on that federal debt -- as a proportion of the GDP it's lower than it was in the 1980s through mid-1990s. As for the $4T annual federal budget, it's actually not mostly a spending spree.

Your type of thinking will probably cause you to make less than optimal investment decisions, sort of the way our leading bankers of the 1920s thought it was only prudent to keep the US dollar strong against the value of gold.

Quote from ViciousTide : A growing concern and question at http://answers.yahoo.com/question...822AAH5qyU But for evidence see http://msplaceddemocrat.wordpress...junk-bond/

still waiting on a recent source...

Quote from vbt : still waiting on a recent source...

I find this advise quite interesting, especially when the government will be dipping into 401k and Roth IRA plans in the future....


"Planning Ahead for the Unearned Income Medicare Contribution Tax
http://taxes.about.com/od/payroll...re-Tax.htm

The additional Medicare tax takes effect starting in the year 2013. Higher-income individuals will want to do some quick math to see how this tax will impact their finances. Some tax planning suggestions:

Shift income-producing investments into tax-deferred plans such as IRAs and 401(k) accounts.
Consider tax-exempt bonds instead of taxable bonds. (Suggested by Tony Nitti.)
Pair capital gains with capital losses so that net capital gains are as low as possible.
Defer selling investments with a capital gain to a year when the additional Medicare tax would not apply.
Give income-producing investments to children or other family members who aren't subject to the additional Medicare tax. (Suggested by Rick Bailine.)
Manage your modified adjusted gross income around the thresholds for the Unearned Income Medicare tax. (Suggested by Tony Nitti.)
Harvest investment gains, but not losses, prior to the end of 2012. (Suggested by Tony Nitti.)
Consider meeting the material participation test for income generated by an S corporation or partnership. (Suggested by Tony Nitti.)
Consider meeting the real estate professional test for income generated by rental properties. (Suggested by Tony Nitti.)
Increase payroll withholding or estimated taxes to cover the additional Medicare tax."

Some of this advice i would not follow, because they are trapping you into paying additional recurring Professional license fees and taxes, and will be dipping into your 401k accounts.