Same-sex military couples to receive new benefits.

Quote from BigBananaMess : Good question. I smoked cigarettes for a while in college. I liked smoking and meeting women who smoked , but not what it did to my lungs. And women I actually wanted to date didn't like the smell. The costs outweighted the benefits so I stopped. Am I still a smoker because I used to smoke? Have I always been a smoker but only expressed it when I smoked? I think it simply began with the first cigarette and ended when I tossed the last pack of cigarettes - I went from smoker to non-smoker. The trait of smoker / drinker / runner / cyclist / homosexual is defined by engaging in the activity. Can one be a runner who doesn't run? A cyclist who does not bike? The same goes for gay.

So one's sexual orientation is determined by actual "activity" not by mere desire or preference?

In other words, a virgin and/or celibate person must be asexual, since s/he is not actively engaging in the activity.

Quote from smegalicious : So one's sexual orientation is determined by actual "activity" not by mere desire or preference?

Sexual orientation is a made up concept proffered by those who want to pretend it is an immutable trait so they can scream "discrimination."

Human sexual attraction is a calculation. A subconscious cost-benefit analysis that takes place in seconds. A calculation that is performed so many times a day is takes place as naturally as breathing. Input from sensory stimuli are evaluated against past experience, fertility cues, social status, ability to provide and other factors and the output is a gut feeling of attraction or repulsion to varying extents.

Government incentives for homosexual behaviour are input to that calculus. A modest incentive may not wholly change the outcome, but it may decide a few toss ups.

Quote from BigBananaMess : Sexual orientation is a made up concept proffered by those who want to pretend it is an immutable trait so they can scream "discrimination." Human sexual attraction is a calculation. A subconscious cost-benefit analysis that takes place in seconds. A calculation that is performed so many times a day is takes place as naturally as breathing. Input from sensory stimuli are evaluated against past experience, fertility cues, social status, ability to provide and other factors and the output is a gut feeling of attraction or repulsion to varying extents. Government incentives for homosexual behaviour are input to that calculus. A modest incentive may not wholly change the outcome, but it may decide a few toss ups.

That would seem to conflict with your previous statement in which homosexuality was determined by "activity"...

Quote from smegalicious : That would seem to conflict with your previous statement in which homosexuality was determined by "activity"...

There is no conflict. If I envision myself as a professional basketball player while throwing up bricks with my son on his 3' fisher price basketball goal, does that make me an NBA player? No. I thnk I might like being an NBA player. But only if I play in the NBA am I an NBA player.

Likewise if I read running magazines and visualize running a marathon, does that make me a runner. No. Only by running can I be a runner.

Quote from darkfrog : No. It's as simple as men that LIKE to and prefer sex with other men are gay. Men that don't have such a preference are considered bisexual and men that have a preference for woman are heterosexual. If you suck some guy for $1 million, the act itself is gay, but it happens to have been done by a heterosexual man (I'm assuming).

See my replies to smeg, they address your points.

Quote : So if I go to church one time but don't like it, does that mean I used to be Christian?

No, going to church makes you a churchgoer not a Christian. So, if you attend church and stop, you used to be a churchgoer.

So what exactly would cause a man to begin or stop finding men physically and emotionally attractive? Tax breaks? Governmental recognition? That is just absurd.


I agree that straight people can have gay sex and not be gay. Just like it is possible for gay people to have straight sex and not be straight. It isn't common, but it is possible. But changing someone's sexual orientation just isn't possible. Sure, there are a VERY small number of people who claim to be "cured of teh ghey", but i'm very skeptical.


BBM--i'm not sure if you realize how insulting some of your posts are. You clearly have NO idea of what goes on in a person's head while they're dealing with sexual orientation issues. There are kids and adults who seriously suffer through this time, some even attempt or succed in commiting suicide. Friends are lost. Families are destroyed. And even if you're lucky enough to have great friends and family, you still have the realization that you're in for a lifetime of dirty looks and discrimination from bigots everywhere. Dismissing these people as just those who want to claim discrimination is just disgusting. Now, by the tone of your posts, i'm guessing you don't give a crap, but i thought i'd at least give you the chance to rethink your words.

Quote from BigBananaMess : The trait of smoker / drinker / runner / cyclist / homosexual is defined by engaging in the activity. Can one be a runner who doesn't run? A cyclist who does not bike? The same goes for gay.

No, it doesn't. Being gay is defined by being attracted to members of the same gender, not by acting upon that attraction.

Quote from BigBananaMess : Sexual orientation is a made up concept proffered by those who want to pretend it is an immutable trait so they can scream "discrimination."

Not so much.

Quote from politicaljunkie : So what exactly would cause a man to begin or stop finding men physically and emotionally attractive?

A better offer.

Quote : But changing someone's sexual orientation just isn't possible. Sure, there are a VERY small number of people who claim to be "cured of teh ghey", but i'm very skeptical.

People change teams every day. Women leave their husbands b/c they have decided to become a lesbian and vice versa. People enter prison and become homosexuals then later leave prison and become heterosexuals again.

Quote : I'm not sure if you realize how insulting some of your posts are. You clearly have NO idea of what goes on in a person's head while they're dealing with sexual orientation issues. There are kids and adults who seriously suffer through this time, some even attempt or succed in commiting suicide. Friends are lost. Families are destroyed. And even if you're lucky enough to have great friends and family, you still have the realization that you're in for a lifetime of dirty looks and discrimination from bigots everywhere. Dismissing these people as just those who want to claim discrimination is just disgusting. Now, by the tone of your posts, i'm guessing you don't give a crap, but i thought i'd at least give you the chance to rethink your words.

:violin: Everybody deals with stuff like that. Find someone who dated or married a person of the opposite gender their family disliked or a wife whose husband ran offf with his secretary and then explain how same sex couples have a monopoly on heartache.

Quote from BigBananaMess : Everybody deals with stuff like that. Find someone who dated or married a person of the opposite gender their family disliked or a wife whose husband ran offf with his secretary ......

or someone who didn't vote for bho in '08......

Quote from Frogstar : No, it doesn't. Being gay is defined by being attracted to members of the same gender, not by acting upon that attraction. Not so much.

Homoattractual?

I am attracted to Ferraris. I have ogled many but have never owned one ( and probably won't unless some guy offers me $100 million to have sex with him ). Does being attracted to Ferraris make me a Ferrari owner? A Ferrari driver? Of course not. Until I plunk down the cash and take the wheel I am just a poseur.

Quote from BigBananaMess : A better offer. People change teams every day. Women leave their husbands b/c they have decided to become a lesbian and vice versa. People enter prison and become homosexuals then later leave prison and become heterosexuals again.

This is palpably naive.

Quote : :violin: Everybody deals with stuff like that. Find someone who dated or married a person of the opposite gender their family disliked or a wife whose husband ran offf with his secretary and then explain how same sex couples have a monopoly on heartache.

Wow. You really have NO clue.

Everyone comes to terms with something about themselves that will make them a second class citizen, possibly make them lose every single one of their friends, disowned by their family or sent to either a church/psychologist be "cured"? How about being forced to hide who you are throughout college--constantly trying to hide your sexuality and deathly afraid that you'll get drunk and slip up and say something while your friends jokingly mock each other by calling them fags? How about hanging out with clients who you know are religious and probably won't like your sexuality and ask about your private life? How about talking with your mother and hearing her say horrible things about her co-workers GAY son? Good lord man, you have no clue. Whats more, you actually continue to make things worse for gay people through your failure to understand/care, belittling what they're going through and continuing to actively support anti-gay agendas.

Quote from BigBananaMess : Homoattractual? I am attracted to Ferraris. I have ogled many but have never owned one ( and probably won't unless some guy offers me $100 million to have sex with him ). Does being attracted to Ferraris make me a Ferrari owner? A Ferrari driver? Of course not. Until I plunk down the cash and take the wheel I am just a poseur.

If you want to have sex with a car, that's your own thing. Just make sure that the car's owner consents, and make sure the tailpipe has time to cool off. Unless burning your johnson rod is your thing, in which case, more power to you.

Quote from BigBananaMess : See my replies to smeg, they address your points. No, going to church makes you a churchgoer not a Christian. So, if you attend church and stop, you used to be a churchgoer.

As I suspected, you stick with your definition based on the act rather than the internal desires not because it is the definition that most people use, but the definition that supports your attacks the best.

Acting like a Christian doesn't make one Christian unless one believes, but acting out a gay act automatically makes one gay, regardless of their actual sexual preferences and desires. Got it. Now I understand how out of touch with reality you are.

Quote from politicaljunkie : Wow. You really have NO clue. Everyone comes to terms with something about themselves that will make them a second class citizen, possibly make them lose every single one of their friends, disowned by their family or sent to either a church/psychologist be "cured"? How about being forced to hide who you are throughout college--constantly trying to hide your sexuality and deathly afraid that you'll get drunk and slip up and say something while your friends jokingly mock each other by calling them fags? How about hanging out with clients who you know are religious and probably won't like your sexuality and ask about your private life? How about talking with your mother and hearing her say horrible things about her co-workers GAY son? Good lord man, you have no clue. Whats more, you actually continue to make things worse for gay people through your failure to understand/care, belittling what they're going through and continuing to actively support anti-gay agendas.

Do you REALLY think life is all peaches and cream (no pun intended) for men who do not have sex with other men? How about sweating it out because your GF is late? How about wanting to do the perky new girl eight ways to Tuesday but knowing you would get fired if found out? How about wanting to plough the MILFy single mom on your kids play dates but knowing the government would take your kids and money if you did? How about having a meeting with the Senior VP and missing all the content because you can only think about her dressed in a leather corset giving you a good spanking?

Life is hard. Deal.