Slower Growth of Health Costs Eases Budget Deficit

Quote from Radeck : Not to burst your bubble, but even the Obama-supporting Factcheck.org essentially calls that a lie http://factcheck.org/2013/02/fact...RvikvI2Cot

Calls what a lie? Your quote was repeated in the article I cited.

Quote from 124nic8 : Quality of life procedures like hip/knee replacement? Or anything which corrects conditions that are not life threatening? Are those really considered to be elective?

That. For instance having an MRI or CT scan done when there's nothing to indicate it's needed, but the doctors haven't a clue. Having heart surgery for some non-fatal heart condition. Having an entire breast removed for a small non-malignant tumor. And on and on.

In the hip/knee replacement it might be someone complains of minor hip/knee pain, doctor recommends replacement even though it isn't medically indicated. Makes up shit to get insurance to cover it, or exaggerates overall risk to get patient to agree to it.

Quote from brbubba : Having heart surgery for some non-fatal heart condition.

You mean like afib?

Something which if not corrected can cause a stroke. At the least elevates risk.

And is debilitating to the point where normal activities are not possible.

Not life threatening; unless you consider exercising to be necessary to life.

Quote from 124nic8 : You mean like afib? Something which if not corrected can cause a stroke. At the least elevates risk. And is debilitating to the point where normal activities are not possible. Not life threatening; unless you consider exercising to be necessary to life.

If something is debilitating enough where normal activity is not possible, then I think a solution needs to be found.

I mean stuff like this. http://www.aarp.org/health/condit...oid.2.html. Says 500k/year are implanted with this shit. Patients don't know enough to say no. Not to mention are typically not informed of potential complications. It's a risk reward proposition, but if the doctor is saying it will reduce your risk of XYZ, but neglecting to tell you that getting it done will also increase your risk of XYZ, then you aren't an informed patient. Regardless though, the Doc is getting his/her procedure done and billing for it.

Quote from brbubba : If something is debilitating enough where normal activity is not possible, then I think a solution needs to be found. I mean stuff like this. http://www.aarp.org/health/condit...oid.2.html. Says 500k/year are implanted with this shit. Patients don't know enough to say no. Not to mention are typically not informed of potential complications. It's a risk reward proposition, but if the doctor is saying it will reduce your risk of XYZ, but neglecting to tell you that getting it done will also increase your risk of XYZ, then you aren't an informed patient. Regardless though, the Doc is getting his/her procedure done and billing for it.

Well, 4 procedures is hardly all treatments for non-life-threatening conditions.

But I've got to agree with at least the back surgury.

A long time ago, a doc wanted to operate on my back before even trying physical therapy.

I told him no, and controlled my back pain with stretching and exercise.

It was caused by basketball, but I'm still playing.

lol. I'm confused.. here's a graph of the year over year change. This is a current graph.



anyone notice the inverse way correlation of GDP and NHE? After looking at the graph I have a better question.. why isn't potential GDP year over year over 4%? It should be steady at +5% year over year.. maybe even 6% and holding steady.. our GDP is also growing much slower also.

So GDP is growing slower, potential GDP is growing slower, unemployment is lowering slower and Healthcare costs are growing slower..

hmm.. gee a possible correlation??

now as for premiums.. that's a different story.. notice how as of the past 3 years, workers increase in paying premiums outpaces the increase in premiums. aka.. more is coming out of people's physical pocket rather than the company eating it up.

Quote from DJPlayer : lol. I'm confused.. here's a graph of the year over year change. This is a current graph. anyone notice the inverse way correlation of GDP and NHE? After looking at the graph I have a better question.. why isn't potential GDP year over year over 4%? It should be steady at +5% year over year.. maybe even 6% and holding steady.. our GDP is also growing much slower also. So GDP is growing slower, potential GDP is growing slower, unemployment is lowering slower and Healthcare costs are growing slower.. hmm.. gee a possible correlation?? now as for premiums.. that's a different story.. notice how as of the past 3 years, workers increase in paying premiums outpaces the increase in premiums. aka.. more is coming out of people's physical pocket rather than the company eating it up.

Is population growth constant, increasing, or decreasing?

Seems potential GDP would be related to pop growth.

I heard a lot of illegal Mexicans are going back.

Quote from 124nic8 : Well, 4 procedures is hardly all treatments for non-life-threatening conditions. But I've got to agree with at least the back surgury. A long time ago, a doc wanted to operate on my back before even trying physical therapy. I told him no, and controlled my back pain with stretching and exercise. It was caused by basketball, but I'm still playing.

Those were just supposed to be examples. It could potentially cover any procedure. Doctors have an incentive to rack up the bills, so they do...

Quote from brbubba : Those were just supposed to be examples. It could potentially cover any procedure. Doctors have an incentive to rack up the bills, so they do...

Some do. I think most have enough work w/o padding it.

It is a shame that too many patients don't think critically about what the doc recommends.

Quote from 124nic8 : IIRC, there are a number of cost cutting incentives. Do your own research.

There aren't. There is not a single point about explicitly limiting the cost. There are a bunch of general remarks such as cutting waste, etc... but find me a single point where there are explicit caps on cost, or cost control metrics.

Quote from 124nic8 : Is population growth constant, increasing, or decreasing? Seems potential GDP would be related to pop growth. I heard a lot of illegal Mexicans are going back.

well that would mean unemployment should be decreasing. As population slows, unemployment should then decrease. Less workers = more jobs for those seeking.. yes?

Quote from 124nic8 : Some do. I think most have enough work w/o padding it. It is a shame that too many patients don't think critically about what the doc recommends.

I think for some it has become so ingrained that they don't even do it intentionally. So basically it's incompetence.

Most patients haven't got a clue. I've heard stories about patients not even knowing what surgery they were getting or even what their diagnosed condition was.

BTW, good source for a doctor racking up bills, the dentist. Those bastards try to take an xray every 5 minutes and I have to constantly tell them NO and they act all weird like I'm the problem child in the room. Meanwhile the ADA only recommends xrays once ever three years. But hey, if my insurance pays then the dentist doesn't give a crap even if they are irradiating your head.

Quote from brbubba : As long as medical procedures are tied to financial incentives, there will never be a slowdown in health care costs. So basically if doctors can keep raking in money for doing elective procedures, they will continue to fleece the system. Just like patients who can get free ibuprofen, instead of paying $10 for it like normal people, will do so.

Healthcare has really gotten out of control, and much of it is indeed due to "elective" or semi-elective procedures. We don't see nearly the same type of wild west profiteering culture in other countries where the government has gotten heavily involved, which is why I'm hopeful for the U.S. The government will have a heavier hand in controlling prices and costs (call it socialism or whatever you want). While the industry won't be as attractive from an investment standpoint in 20-30 years, at least we won't be blowing so much of our money on it.

Quote from zhopa : There aren't. There is not a single point about explicitly limiting the cost. There are a bunch of general remarks such as cutting waste, etc... but find me a single point where there are explicit caps on cost, or cost control metrics.

Read what I wrote again. Incentives are not caps nor controls.

Quote from DJPlayer : well that would mean unemployment should be decreasing. As population slows, unemployment should then decrease. Less workers = more jobs for those seeking.. yes?

Not if they are going back due to lack of jobs.