Schneider Level 2 EV Charger, $699 at Home Depot

Quote from uniblabsd : anyone really think the batteries will last 10 years?

As an engineer who builds and test batteries, yes. LiFePO4 cells will last 3000, 5000+ cycles depending on DOD. Add to that the EPA makes them warranty them for 8yrs,100k...

I tried a 62 mile trip to simulate a commute in a Leaf last year when it was 20F outside. I got 60 out of it and a tow back to the dealer. I might try this again since the 2013 Leaf has a slightly extended range and I found a level 2 charger 2 miles from work where I could top off if need be.
This just shows that an electric may not be right for you now, but sometime in the future it could be.

Quote from d55guy : As an engineer who builds and test batteries, yes. LiFePO4 cells will last 3000, 5000+ cycles depending on DOD. Add to that the EPA makes them warranty them for 8yrs,100k...

I wonder if the batteries lose efficiency at all like my iPod. When an iPod battery is new, it lasts much longer than it does after 2 years. Does the same degradation occur with car batteries?

edit: never mind, guy above posted that they lose about 80% of their capacity.

Quote from euwil : I wonder if the batteries lose efficiency at all like my iPod. When an iPod battery is new, it lasts much longer than it does after 2 years. Does the same degradation occur with car batteries? edit: never mind, guy above posted that they lose about 80% of their capacity.

They will lose about 20%* of their capacity, making their Max Charge Level 80% of what it is today.

Quote from JAB : I tried a 62 mile trip to simulate a commute in a Leaf last year when it was 20F outside. I got 60 out of it and a tow back to the dealer. I might try this again since the 2013 Leaf has a slightly extended range and I found a level 2 charger 2 miles from work where I could top off if need be. This just shows that an electric may not be right for you now, but sometime in the future it could be.

Exactly why I would not buy an EV right now. They are strictly suburban/city vehicles and if that's all you do, OK. I like to take trips and the availability of a charging station is too thin. Not to mention, the wait time for the charging process. Now a hybrid vehicle makes alot more sense. And alot cheaper, too.

Quote from frugalbuyer : Don't buy the Electric Vehicle charger from Schneider Electric. lBuy from an American company. Buy it from Eaton Corp, that's where I work. If you can afford an electric vehicle then you should be able to afford to buy one of these chargers made by an American company instead of one from Germany.

I work for Schneider, you realize that there are hundreds of thousands of Schneider employees in North America?
Schneider has bought up dozens of small-medium companies in the past decade and has a massive product line, most of them being 100% American made/serviced products.

This product probably came from old Square D. All American.
Just saying.

Its not the cost of the charger, its the cost of the installation that will kill ya. Cost me $1100 to install a "free" Blink Level 2 charger for my Leaf.

Quote from euwil : Sorry, but I don't think you've made a very good case for your company- and I go out of my way to buy American. Is your product better, why is it worth $500 more? If a German company can produce a $600 product that a US company, Eaton, sells for $1100, Eaton must be doing something wrong. Germany has extremely high costs of doing business in terms of taxes and employee compensation. If they can sell the same product for less after shipping from Europe and import duties, they must really be very efficient and well managed. I suggest you email company management this deal so that they know how far behind Eaton is in terms of global competitiveness. Is Eaton a unionised company, by chance?

You think the German company isn't?

When it comes to Europe, it isn't unions that separate the US from them. Far stronger probability Eaton is competing with a bigger subsidy.

Wow 10 yr payback! let me run out and buy one now......

Quote from fudsak : Eh, the economics actually can work out. If you drive 30 miles to and from work, which is not unheard of where I'm at in SE Michigan, it would take about 10 years for the cost of gas to offset the cost of the car + charging. Assuming: Electric Focus, $0.08/kwh off peak charging compared to Gas Focus, 30 mpg with $4/gal gas and 15,000 miles a year of driving on both. That's not too unreasonable, especially when you consider all of the gas you didn't consume. This charger won't even work on a Tesla... they had to go all Apple and make their own charger.

Quote from EK100 : You think the German company isn't? When it comes to Europe, it isn't unions that separate the US from them. Far stronger probability Eaton is competing with a bigger subsidy.

You're probably right about the German unions. However, it turns out both products are made in the USA, so I wonder what the reason is for the price differential?

Must be unions after all

Quote from euwil : You're probably right about the German unions. However, it turns out both products are made in the USA, so I wonder what the reason is for the price differential? Must be unions after all

I don't see where this product is made in the USA. Schneider might have a bike chain company in the USA or air conditioner supplier for cars. Nobody claimed this charger was made in the USA just that it might have come from the USA.

Quote from princebargain : Its not the cost of the charger, its the cost of the installation that will kill ya. Cost me $1100 to install a "free" Blink Level 2 charger for my Leaf.

Also, most locales prohibit the home owner from getting a permit for installing one of these so you can't really install it yourself.

Quote from deserttrader : Wow 10 yr payback! let me run out and buy one now......

Ok, you might be a troll, but in case you aren't, and just didn't know the real facts, let me rant a little.
<rant>
It's not just about payback. It's about not having other countries control our economy, it's about not having our soldiers die for nothing, it's about less pollution, preserving this precious planet for our kids, grandkids, etc. (I'm not a tree hugger, but it's a fact that we are really ruining it for future generations)

Where I live, 50% of electricity is generated by a nuclear plant, 30% from hydro, so it really is good for the environment. Heck even Electric Vehicles using electricity generated by a coal plant is much cleaner!

Having a gas station in your garage is also nice!

Do you think flying was cheap when the first commercial flights were available? It has to start somewhere.

Currently, EV owners are usually EV owners because they care about the environment, or they like tech, or like to be early adopters, I can think of many good reasons.

These same people who are spending a fortune on a car like this are the early adopters, the same people who are responsible for the continuous drop in price.

Last but not least, did you know that you will be able to get a 2013 Nissan Leaf in the low 20's if you live in CA (or mid-high 20's anywhere else)?

So, 'lol' as much as you want, but please give this some thought, do some research before making statements like that.
</rant>

Don't consider this a personal attack, but an attempt to help share the knowledge about what could be the most important technology for the next several years.

Quote from frugalbuyer : Don't buy the Electric Vehicle charger from Schneider Electric. Buy from an American company. Buy it from Eaton Corp, that's where I work. If you can afford an electric vehicle then you should be able to afford to buy one of these chargers made by an American company instead of one from Germany.

Before you play the nationality card to diss your competition, perhaps wouldn't lose credibility if you had your facts right .. or at least do a little easy research first. Schneider Electric is a global company with plants all over the world. (Like most big companies today). They are NOT headquartered in Germany as your post implies. They have manufacturing plants worldwide, and 25% percent of their employees are in North America. I would tell you where they are headquartered, but I don't want to do the research for you (hint, next to Germany).... Google it at least if you don't know, before publishing bad information that creates a chain of irrelevant conversation. Big companies today are global, American car companies preaching "Buy American" are global. I watched them put the American machine tool companies out of business buying from Germany and Japan because the dollar was at disadvantage. "Buy American" as they moved assembly plants to Mexico, while the Asian automakers built plants is the US. Big companies are global today.. that's the way it is to survive globally. I don't want to hear how the profits come back to the US, because of US tax law.... it don't. My next company car provided to me will be American , a Ford Fusion.... built in Mexico.... probably with parts supplied by Eaton.... in Mexico.

Quote from The.Dude : Ok, you might be a troll, but in case you aren't, and just didn't know the real facts, let me rant a little. <rant> It's not just about payback. It's about not having other countries control our economy, it's about not having our soldiers die for nothing, it's about less pollution, preserving this precious planet for our kids, grandkids, etc. (I'm not a tree hugger, but it's a fact that we are really ruining it for future generations) Where I live, 50% of electricity is generated by a nuclear plant, 30% from hydro, so it really is good for the environment. Heck even Electric Vehicles using electricity generated by a coal plant is much cleaner! Having a gas station in your garage is also nice! Do you think flying was cheap when the first commercial flights were available? It has to start somewhere. Currently, EV owners are usually EV owners because they care about the environment, or they like tech, or like to be early adopters, I can think of many good reasons. These same people who are spending a fortune on a car like this are the early adopters, the same people who are responsible for the continuous drop in price. Last but not least, did you know that you will be able to get a 2013 Nissan Leaf in the low 20's if you live in CA (or mid-high 20's anywhere else)? So, 'lol' as much as you want, but please give this some thought, do some research before making statements like that. </rant> Don't consider this a personal attack, but an attempt to help share the knowledge about what could be the most important technology for the next several years.

Said it much nicer than I would have but yes totally correct.

Show me the payback on any BMW over an infiniti...or payback of an SUV over a minivan..oh wait minivan has more room, more practical, cheaper per cubic foot..hmmm makes you winder why people buy SUVs 10 to 1 doesn't it?

I want an electric car but range needs to be about 220 miles quoted and at least 150 with heat etc. I drive long distances for work and need that 150 miles ,in. Once I can get that reasonably I'll be electric. Then my tax write off can be 55 cents per mile while it costs me 2-4 cents on electric. Government will pay me even more than the 8 cents per mile that Prius roughly costs.

Also my electric is solar right now from my panels. So mine would effectively be 50% clean..the rest I'd prob have to buy from electric company since I don't think I could generate enough. Hoping that once the central ac goes I'll self install a geothermal heat and ac pump making me completely self reliant...wishful thinking..but I'm hoping.