Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 16MP Mirrorless Camera with 14-42 mm Lens (black) $390 + Free Shipping

Quote from azeng98 : This deal is even better!!! Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 bundle [adorama.com]

How is it better?

Amazon Bundle Link [amazon.com]
Amazon's Bundle price is $565 with no rebates. Would be super slick if Amazon would PM Abe's price on the camera and then do the bundle.

Quote from av8nautiger : I don't understand why anyone would buy a camera like this as opposed to a, entry level DSLR like a Nikon 3100, etc?? Not that much more expensive and not that much bigger.

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"Mirrorless camera" is like "Horseless carriage". The mirror belongs to the time of chemical film cameras.
The mirror:
1. Is in the way, and is locked up for almost all use.
2. The distance between the image plane and lens must be large enough for the mirror. This gives a very bulky and big camera as well as big and bulky expansive and heavy lenses
3. Limits speed of the camera as it must move out of the way to take a picture
4. Adds a lot of bulk: Mirror, mirror housing, pentaprism, and a support frame
5. reduces shock resistance due to bulk and mechanical nature.

no iris control for video... I was just about to buy

I have a G2 and it's amazing. It's on par and even better than the comparably priced "bigger brands (both in name and size)" in some areas. The G5 improves on the G2 / G3 in almost every way except battery life. Better high iso/low light performance, new features like in-camera HDR, slightly smaller, better screen, etc etc etc.

I actually just dropped my G2 and the touchscreen is shot so this is perfect timing! I just wish it had a BillMeLater deal, I have a couple big jobs coming up I'd love no financing until I got paid. I already have the lens that comes with it so if anybody would be interested in that let me know...

Just curious though, are their warranties generally good/reliable on this site?

Quote from erikev : \ "Mirrorless camera" is like "Horseless carriage". The mirror belongs to the time of chemical film cameras. The mirror: 1. Is in the way, and is locked up for almost all use. 2. The distance between the image plane and lens must be large enough for the mirror. This gives a very bulky and big camera as well as big and bulky expansive and heavy lenses 3. Limits speed of the camera as it must move out of the way to take a picture 4. Adds a lot of bulk: Mirror, mirror housing, pentaprism, and a support frame 5. reduces shock resistance due to bulk and mechanical nature.

Literally none of those "advantages" show up in real world use. The only advantage anyone might realize from your list is the smaller size, but they aren't THAT much smaller that it makes a significant difference. If I'm going to lug around something the size of a 4/3, I might as well lug around a dSLR from a larger ecosystem that gives me better performance and more options.

Quote from homersapien : Literally none of those "advantages" show up in real world use. The only advantage anyone might realize from your list is the smaller size, but they aren't THAT much smaller that it makes a significant difference. If I'm going to lug around something the size of a 4/3, I might as well lug around a dSLR from a larger ecosystem that gives me better performance and more options.

You gotta look up reviews because ALL of those advantages produce a smaller, cheaper camera with comparable (and in some areas better) performance than similarly priced brands from Nikon and Canon. To see a significant jump in performance you'll have to spend a lot more, generally in the 1,000's. Big reason more people aren't jumping ship is that they have lenses that are a pain (and sometimes impossible) to use on these cameras, and admittedly there's still not a huge lens market yet so you'll be paying a premium straight from Panasonic or Oly.

Quote from av8nautiger : I don't understand why anyone would buy a camera like this as opposed to a, entry level DSLR like a Nikon 3100, etc?? Not that much more expensive and not that much bigger.

I use both, and you will find many people like me that back up their SLR system with a smaller mirrorless interchangeable system. There are various advantages, but the primary one is SIZE. My Panasonic G2 is much smaller than an SLR, and when you start adding more an more lenses, the difference is even more stark. Plus, for some kinds of shooting, being based around live view offers many advantages.

Quote from clemsonteric : Hmm...this or a Sony NEX-5N? Fast autofocus and good low light performance are important. Thoughts?

Quote from clemsonteric : Thanks for the reply. It's kind of frustrating how one camera has this and one camera has that... but what camera has the best mix of everything? Companies don't want to give you everything because then they won't be able to sell you the next upgrade. Also the lenses are confusing me... I guess panasonic and olympus lenses are interchangeable? Can any of these lenses be used on the Sony NEX line? (my guess is no and Sony went to a proprietary system)

If you get the NEX-5R it will be the best mix of everything; great autofocus and incredible low-light performance. It handily beats this Panasonic G5, although the E-M5 is pretty close in image quality. It isn't a question of the camera companies holding back; of course if they can add features and make themselves stand out from the competition, then they will. But, they have to make the camera sellable and profitable. Look at you, for example, wanting the best of everything but not willing to step up in price to the higher end cameras, so in the mid range they have to choose what they think will be the best compromises.

And yes, any micro 4/3 lens, regardless of brand, will work on any micro 4/3 camera, regardless of brand. My Panasonic G2 uses a Panasonic 14-42mm and an Olympus 40-150mm. You have to use NEX lenses on a NEX camera. What Panasonic and Olympus did, sharing a lens mount, is highly unusual and is almost never found.

Quote from BeerBellyBob : So, I'm guessing for people that have used the Sony NEX line of cameras, this is not a good choice? For features, the G5 looks very nice, but how does it do on low light shooting with the kit lens?

Step up from the kit lens, otherwise it's like comparing a race between two lame horses. When a kit lens gives you an f/3.5-5.6 aperture, even something cheap like the Sigma 19mm f/2.8 or 30mm f/2.8 gives you 4 times more light hitting the sensor.

Quote from homersapien : Literally none of those "advantages" show up in real world use. The only advantage anyone might realize from your list is the smaller size, but they aren't THAT much smaller that it makes a significant difference. If I'm going to lug around something the size of a 4/3, I might as well lug around a dSLR from a larger ecosystem that gives me better performance and more options.

Quoted for truth. I use both SLRs and mirrorless cameras, and for most shooting, SLRs still rule. Also, if he wants to liken an SLR to a horseless carriage, then I would say that even the most advanced mirrorless camera today isn't even a Ford Model T. Until they can fix the lag issue, hash out the capability to track motion, and give it respectable battery life, then the mirrorless camera will continue to be a backup to many people's SLR, and not a replacement for it.

However, I disagree about size. I got a backup DSLR to my main DSLR, a D3100. Even with a 35mm f/1.8G lens and an 18-70mm lens, the kit starts getting larger and larger, and while I often carry it, I go back to my G2 when I really want to go compact. Plus, I'm still waiting for a good 24mm, 28mm, or 35mm equivalent lens for the D3100, but am fairly certain that it will never arrive, because to make respectable performance, it would have to be heavily retrofocal, making it very large.

Thx op. Was about to buy an OM-D but the specs on this are very comparable. With the $700 I'm saving, I can buy a couple lenses (which are interchangeable between Olympus and Panny), learn the micro 4/3 system and compare it to my t3i, and upgrade to the Olympus later when the price goes down.
Will definitely get 20mm f/1.7 and probably 45mm f/1.8.

Quote from JKSonic : You gotta look up reviews because ALL of those advantages produce a smaller, cheaper camera with comparable (and in some areas better) performance than similarly priced brands from Nikon and Canon. To see a significant jump in performance you'll have to spend a lot more, generally in the 1,000's. Big reason more people aren't jumping ship is that they have lenses that are a pain (and sometimes impossible) to use on these cameras, and admittedly there's still not a huge lens market yet so you'll be paying a premium straight from Panasonic or Oly.

That's not true at all. Compare prices of the K-30 or D5100 to this camera, for example, and you get MUCH MUCH more performance for your money with a DSLR. Size is an advantage of mirrorless cameras, but price absolutely is not. That is the reason that my Panasonic kit is relatively incomplete. Go look at the price of lenses like the Olympus 12mm, Olympus 17mm f/1.8, and Panasonic 25mm. They also do not have better performance than Nikon or Canon cameras, especially for the money. Going from large format, to medium format, to 35mm, to APS SLRs, to micro 4/3, then the APS SLR to micro 4/3 is where the smaller sensor size stops leading to a cheaper system. Of course, you can keep it relatively cheap by waiting for fire sales like this or the Olympus 40-150mm lens for $99, because Panasonic and Olympus still don't fully have their inventory management in order, but overall prices still absolutely favor SLRs low-to-mid-level SLRs.

Quote from Ringo* : Thx op. Was about to buy an OM-D but the specs on this are very comparable. With the $700 I'm saving, I can buy a couple lenses (which are interchangeable between Olympus and Panny), learn the micro 4/3 system and compare it to my t3i, and upgrade to the Olympus later when the price goes down. Will definitely get 20mm f/1.7 and probably 45mm f/1.8.

OM-D has better image quality and some other advantages, but this is a solid plan. I am pushing for my father, who travels a lot, to do this as well: buy a G5, which at 1/3 the price of the E-M5 is MUCH more than 1/3 the camera, and build up his system until current-gen cameras start getting clearanced. Two good lenses that you're considering.

Quote from shnitz : That's not true at all. Compare prices of the K-30 or D5100 to this camera, for example, and you get MUCH MUCH more performance for your money with a DSLR. Size is an advantage of mirrorless cameras, but price absolutely is not. That is the reason that my Panasonic kit is relatively incomplete. Go look at the price of lenses like the Olympus 12mm, Olympus 17mm f/1.8, and Panasonic 25mm. They also do not have better performance than Nikon or Canon cameras, especially for the money. Going from large format, to medium format, to 35mm, to APS SLRs, to micro 4/3, then the APS SLR to micro 4/3 is where the smaller sensor size stops leading to a cheaper system. Of course, you can keep it relatively cheap by waiting for fire sales like this or the Olympus 40-150mm lens for $99, because Panasonic and Olympus still don't fully have their inventory management in order, but overall prices still absolutely favor SLRs low-to-mid-level SLRs.

You're making it out to be like it's night and day though. Go to dpreview and compare a G3 (no official G5 review up for some reason) to a D5100...shoot even to a G2. I'd hardly call it MUCH MUCH better performance until you get to much higher ISO's, not when you can get the G5 for the prices it's been going for. I did countless hours of research before I got my G2 and at the time for the price it was a no-brainer. Main advantage is obvious, low light performance will be better in bigger cameras until they figure out a way around it. However stick the 20mm on the G5 and it goes a long way to making up for that.

I'm not saying these are better than standard, but for the price they have enough advantages for most people to make it worth it. And like I said, to see a HUGE jump in performance you're likely going to have to either forgo other brands' entry level cameras or at the very least get some of their best lenses.

Quote from JKSonic : You're making it out to be like it's night and day though. Go to dpreview and compare a G3 (no official G5 review up for some reason) to a D5100...shoot even to a G2. I'd hardly call it MUCH MUCH better performance until you get to much higher ISO's, not when you can get the G5 for the prices it's been going for. I did countless hours of research before I got my G2 and at the time for the price it was a no-brainer. Main advantage is obvious, low light performance will be better in bigger cameras until they figure out a way around it. However stick the 20mm on the G5 and it goes a long way to making up for that. I'm not saying these are better than standard, but for the price they have enough advantages for most people to make it worth it. And like I said, to see a HUGE jump in performance you're likely going to have to either forgo other brands' entry level cameras or at the very least get some of their best lenses.

I have a G2, and I've used Nikon since the D70 days. Trust me, it is MUCH MUCH better performance. I don't need to go look at DPReview, because I have access to the cameras here in front of me. I shoot raw, almost always have, and processed today mainly through LR3 and CS5. Olympus' cameras are finally starting to be able to keep up, but with the G3 or G5 put up against any of the 16MP+ DSLRs, it's a slaughter, even at base ISO.

And compare apples to apples. If you're going to put the $350 Panasonic 20mm on a G5, then at least make it fair and put the $200 Nikon 35mm on a D5100. As I mentioned above, size is an advantage, but the D5100 with 35mm will again slaughter the micro 4/3 with respect to image quality, and will do so for less money.

Edit: As mentioned, I have and often use a Panasonic camera. I am not saying not to buy it. This is a great camera at a great price, and anyone considering the G5 should just jump in and get it. I just called my father and told him to not think, and just buy. It has better image quality than most people reading this thread have ever had access to. I just don't agree that it is cheaper than SLRs at all, and if you're used to any of the 16MP+ Nikon, Sony, Pentax, etc then you're going to be disappointed if you believe that this camera can keep up.

Quote from shnitz : I use both, and you will find many people like me that back up their SLR system with a smaller mirrorless interchangeable system. There are various advantages, but the primary one is SIZE. My Panasonic G2 is much smaller than an SLR, and when you start adding more an more lenses, the difference is even more stark. Plus, for some kinds of shooting, being based around live view offers many advantages.

Thanks for your insight and opinions. I actually ordered an NEX-5N last week - should be here tomorrow. In my research I seriously considered panasonic and olympus offerings. I kept reading the most critical feature of a camera in regards to low light image quality is the sensor size, and the NEX has a larger sensor than the 4/3rds cameras. However the sony menu system (useability) has been criticized often. In addition to the Sony NEX I have an OLD D70 and a few lenses, so I guess I can buy a cheap NEX to Nikon lens adapter and use my existing lenses.

This G5 with 20 mm pancake is an amazing combo...I am a long term DSLR user; previously with Pentax K10D and now with Nikon D7000 and the G5 is no slouch in comparison to my much expensive D7000...However its the compactness and speed of auto focus that impresses me the most...low light performance is not bad either and compares fairly with my D7000...I got the same combo from an earlier HSN deal for around 430 USD and quickly ditched the plastic kit lens for the wonderful 20 mm pancake....Definitely this is a better deal...and BTW the Sony 5R/5N may be better in low light but other than that this G5 beats that in most other areas (be it the electronic viewfinder, 360 degree articulated screen, auto-focus speed, menu system and above all the vast choice of quality lenses)...I only wish this had the IBIS like OMD...But that is asking too much at this low cost...Just my 2 cents though:-)