NYT endorses Obama's minimum wage proposal, but called for scrapping it in 1987....

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Quote from Danman114

Not as much when compared to having a check period. This is referred to as the Law of Diminishing Utility.

But still higher motivation.....

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Do you think that's so they can get minimum wage jobs?

Who WANTS a min wage job? People take them cause they can't find anything better.

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You mean, it's only important for most people's first jobs. There's a huge population out there that need low paying jobs to build their reputation and resume. Pricing these people out of the market isn't a good thing.

Premise and conclusion unsubstantiated.

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02-18-2013, 12:51 PM
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#32

02-18-2013, 12:59 PM

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Quote from thikthird

https://prospect.org/article/minimum-wage-101

"So if going to a $9 minimum wage is such a good idea, why not go to a $40 minimum wage?

Is there ever too much of a good thing? I think for most things the answer is yes."

Most people would say that 'jobs in an economy' and 'money in your paycheck' aren't things that qualify when people say "You can't have too much of a good thing.", although the guy speaking in your article seems more interested in marginalizing and dismissing cons rather than actually discussing them or relating any sort of theory.

Other 'gems' from that article:

So to what extent, even in a competitive market, the minimum wage causes a loss in employment, as opposed to an increase in price, is theoretically ambiguous.

Someone should tell the author that both of those are bad things, so the fact one can't say for certain which bad thing will result doesn't mean you can disregard both bad outcomes.

If the minimum wage is going to be good for working-class families, but not necessarily poor families, I'm not entirely sure why we should think of that as being a leakage of the policy...

This is pretty messed up. First, we're now aiming for 'working class families' to earn closer to minimum wage... awesome. Second, while he admits it won't be good for the poor, he ignores the areas in which it will be bad.

So even if some jobs were lost, a person who might have a smaller probability of employment is also going to have a higher wage if he or she were to be employed. As a result, it is not at all clear that they'd be worse off.

I question whether this guys ever been unemployed and looked for a job that doesn't require any sort of advanced skills. If you don't have a job, the fact that other people make a higher minimum wage only means you are paying higher prices in the industries they work.

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#33

02-18-2013, 01:01 PM

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Quote from 124nic8

Who WANTS a min wage job? People take them cause they can't find anything better.

The poor, unskilled, elderly, teenagers, part-timers, college kids, and those looking to add additional income to supplement their full time work. People take them because they exist and they pay money. Raising the minimum wage means fewer of them will exist.

Quote from 124nic8

Premise and conclusion unsubstantiated.

Seriously? Have you ever worked minimum wage?

You can not only sometimes learn a skill, but also gain experience to use as evidence of dependability for your next job. Most kids & low skilled folks need this.

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#34

02-18-2013, 01:12 PM

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Quote from Danman114

Sounds like an assumption to me. As unions decline, min wage jobs make up a larger share of the job market.

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Seriously? Have you ever worked minimum wage?

I think so, but that was a long time ago. It might have been slightly higher.

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You can not only sometimes learn a skill, but also gain experience to use as evidence of dependability for your next job. Most kids & low skilled folks need this.

Which they can also get from a job paying slightly more.

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#35

02-18-2013, 01:18 PM

rrc06

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Quote from 124nic8

Who WANTS a min wage job? People take them cause they can't find anything better.

False. Minimum wage jobs provide supplemental income for kids and semi/full retirees. well-known fact.

Quote from Imerson

I don't think experience really matters for a president. My point is that you can't really use his own words from 4 years ago against him.

1.20.2009 - The end of one error, and the beginning of another

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#36

02-18-2013, 01:20 PM

thikthird

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Quote from rrc06

False. Minimum wage jobs provide supplemental income for kids and semi/full retirees. well-known fact.

false. that doesn't mean they want them, just that they can't find something better.

Rumble, young man, rumble. These are interesting times we live in. Punctuation is key. Fruit is nature's candy.

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#37

02-18-2013, 01:22 PM

rrc06

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Quote from thikthird

false. that doesn't mean they want them, just that they can't find something better.

What do you expect for entry-level/unskilled positions? $40/hour?

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#38

02-18-2013, 01:25 PM

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Quote from rrc06

False. Minimum wage jobs provide supplemental income for kids and semi/full retirees. well-known fact.

Just imagine how much more money they'll have when their wage goes up and their hours get cut back... or worse.

Quote from thikthird

false. that doesn't mean they want them, just that they can't find something better.

Them showing up is evidence that they prefer it to all available options available to them.

They might want a job that pays them 1,000,000 a year, but that doesn't mean Obama should grant it to them.

Last edited by Danman114; 02-18-2013 at 01:26 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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#39

02-18-2013, 01:30 PM

thikthird

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Quote from Danman114

Just imagine how much more money they'll have when their wage goes up and their hours get cut back... or worse.

Them showing up is evidence that they prefer it to all available options available to them.

They might want a job that pays them 1,000,000 a year, but that doesn't mean Obama should grant it to them.

them showing up is nothing more than evidence that they prefer it to not showing up.

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#40

02-18-2013, 01:32 PM

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Quote from rrc06

What do you expect for entry-level/unskilled positions? $40/hour?

Very few who are offered $40/hr turn it down for min wage.

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#41

02-18-2013, 01:34 PM

rrc06

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Quote from 124nic8

Very few who are offered $40/hr turn it down for min wage.

exactly. Those 40/hour jobs aren't entry-level jobs for retirees/kids.

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#42

02-18-2013, 01:37 PM

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Quote from thikthird

them showing up is nothing more than evidence that they prefer it to not showing up.

And to all of their other available options. Would you prefer they had no job or fewer hours to show up for?

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#43

02-18-2013, 01:38 PM

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Quote from rrc06

exactly. Those 40/hour jobs aren't entry-level jobs for retirees/kids.

But they would take $40 if it were offered. They take min wage cause they can't get anything better.

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#44

02-18-2013, 01:38 PM

thikthird

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Quote from rrc06

exactly. Those 40/hour jobs aren't entry-level jobs for retirees/kids.

and if a retiree or kid can find a job paying minimum wage +50 cents they take that.

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#45

02-18-2013, 01:39 PM

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I'm amazed that the idea of minimum wage is still around given it's obvious links to increased unemployment, especially in low-skilled and temporary workers. I also cringe when I hear excuses like "a working family of 4 can't live on minimum wage". wow, really? Who said it was anyone's responsibility to support any kind of family on any kind of wage?

Plain and simple - if you raise the cost of something more than its value, like an employee, the employer will do a couple things:
- the cost of labor will increase immediately; to mitigate this the employer could do any combination of the following - keep the labor budget the same and cut workers by a proportionate amount of the raise, raise prices, or both.
- since all employees regardless of ability will now cost the same, the employer will retain only the most valuable, or at least the most responsible and the most likely to stay with the company long-term (e.g. keep older over younger workers, generally, the most experienced over the least, etc).

What does this mean? Up minimum wage arbitrarily, and unemployment will increase especially in those less skilled, likely the young.

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