NYT endorses Obama's minimum wage proposal, but called for scrapping it in 1987....

Quote from darkfrog : Not sure what point you're trying to drive home because currently, that is 100% legal and one of the ways we get extra help. It is called internships and externships and volunteers. We get multitudes of people that work for nothing. I wouldn't mind paying some of them, but since any wages that are a penny less than minimum is illegal, and the jobs they do aren't worth minimum (a lot of sitting around and watching), they just continue to volunteer their time and energy. Why is it okay for people to volunteer their time for zero money but that same person is not allowed to contract with an employer for $5/hour? You cannot say that paying them something would be taking advantage of them if paying them nothing is okay.

Pretty sure that:

Quote : in exchange for irrevocably losing the ability to set the terms of their own employment.

is not legal. That would be slavery.

Quote from darkfrog : We already do raise prices incrementally, throughout the year. Losing to competition is multifold. We don't lose our clients to the hospital down the road as much as clients deciding that it has become too expensive to treat so euthanasia is better. We also deal with the online pharmacies as competition, something incrementally raising prices actually makes worse. Of course I'm not going to take business advice from the likes of you anyway. Someone that clearly demonstrates a lack of knowledge about how things work in the real world, when it's not a idealistic classroom setting.

Well then, I guess you'll just lose out to those who don't over-react based on ideology.

How did you ever survive the last min wage hike, if they're so disasterious?

Quote from 124nic8 : The only people that think higher minimum wages are a bad thing are the small minority who run a business that operates on thin margins. Cause they don't see how it helps the economy overall. Money in the hands of low wage earners gets spent right away.

Really? How many businesses do you run that operate on fat margins? How is people spending more money a good thing if that money doesn't buy any more goods or services than the previous level? Someday you will realize the real minimum wage is zero dollars. Someone without any skill does not automatically get a minimum wage job and those already in jobs could lose theirs. Where's this spending money coming from that you think will spur on the economy? From the same place that was paying it out before the hike went into effect and getting it in the hands of even more people. Not only is your business acuity in question your logic is as well.

Quote from darkfrog : Really? How many businesses do you run that operate on fat margins?

All of the most successful ones.

Quote : How is people spending more money a good thing if that money doesn't buy any more goods or services than the previous level?

People will spend faster to beat the price rise, creating a higher velocity of money which increases demand for everything.

Quote : Someday you will realize the real minimum wage is zero dollars.

But no one will profit from that, which is why they'll continue to hire at min wage; profit driven.

Quote : Someone without any skill does not automatically get a minimum wage job and those already in jobs could lose theirs.

They could, and when business picks up, get it back.

Quote : Where's this spending money coming from that you think will spur on the economy? From the same place that was paying it out before the hike went into effect and getting it in the hands of even more people.

As mentioned above, higher velocity.

Quote : Not only is your business acuity in question your logic is as well.

Fortunately, I don't suffer from the myopia which leads you to this ^ conclusion.

Quote from 124nic8 : I'll tell you where; you raise prices by a few percent. And cause all your competitors face the same marginally higher expenses, they will, too, and you'll be in the same position competitively, so you won't lose customers to your competition. Plus, you'll adjust these things gradually over the next few years as the higher rates take effect, just like all previous min wage hikes. It's not like people will abandon the pets they love just cause prices go up a few percent. The only people that think higher minimum wages are a bad thing are the small minority who run a business that operates on thin margins. Cause they don't see how it helps the economy overall. Money in the hands of low wage earners gets spent right away.

Thanks for confirming that minimum wage also contributes to inflation.

It's very simple - you can't tell an employer that they must pay their employees more (or increase their compensation, that is) and expect zero consequences.

Quote from Dr. J : Thanks for confirming that minimum wage also contributes to inflation. It's very simple - you can't tell an employer that they must pay their employees more (or increase their compensation, that is) and expect zero consequences.

We don't expect zero consequences. We expect poor people to have more money and spend it right away, increasing the rate of growth of the economy.

The opposite of recessionary deflation retarding the growth of the economy.

Quote from 124nic8 : We don't expect zero consequences. We expect poor people to have more money and spend it right away, increasing the rate of growth of the economy. The opposite of recessionary deflation retarding the growth of the economy.

Yeeeaaah, that stimulus plan worked real well.....

Guess voters thought there would be another in Act-II

Quote from darkfrog : Not sure what point you're trying to drive home because currently, that is 100% legal and one of the ways we get extra help

Interns get free health care, free room and board, guaranteed lifetime employment, and they can never quit?

Quote from empiretc : Yeeeaaah, that stimulus plan worked real well.....

We've had steady growth ever since, so yeah, it did.

Quote from 124nic8 : We've had steady growth ever since

Of the national deficit.

Quote from empiretc : Of the national deficit.

And jobs and GDP....

Quote from darkfrog : Not sure what point you're trying to drive home because currently, that is 100% legal and one of the ways we get extra help. It is called internships and externships and volunteers. We get multitudes of people that work for nothing. I wouldn't mind paying some of them, but since any wages that are a penny less than minimum is illegal, and the jobs they do aren't worth minimum (a lot of sitting around and watching), they just continue to volunteer their time and energy. Why is it okay for people to volunteer their time for zero money but that same person is not allowed to contract with an employer for $5/hour? You cannot say that paying them something would be taking advantage of them if paying them nothing is okay.

It sounds like your business is run on such thin margins that if tomorrow unpaid internships became illegal it would collapse.

If i ran a business i dont think i would call it a success if i had to add that as a footnote.

the vast majority of internships are hoisted on young people who have no job experience and dont work for zero pay because they want to but they feel its the only way to start their career because they dont have an "in" otherwise. Business prey on those people yet make it out like theyre Verrocchio and all their interns are da vinci

Quote from darkfrog : It appears the supporters of the minimum wage think that way. They think that I can pay new hires $9/ hour yet don't tell me where I will get the revenue to do that. Instead of hiring a high school kid to clean kennels, at the same time giving him/her work experience and a display of aptitude working with animals, I will now have to stop hiring inexpensive labor to do unskilled work and make my technical staff pitch in to do all of the work normally done by high school kids or sometimes an adult without any work experience. Of course since we used to hire from within, that will have to change because there won't be any more previously inexperienced kids getting hired to become vet techs and even full technicians or give them the experience they need to apply to vet school. The only people that think higher minimum wages are a good thing have most likely never run a business that operates on thin margins.

The poor are always lambasted as "wasting their money" (meaning they spend it and dont horde it)... connect the dots here for a second. If you gave every min wage worker a raise youre effectively giving them a bunch more money that theyll spend on the local economy. that includes dogs and cats and taking care of them, no?

This actually drives growth as opposed to the concept that if people like romney had his taxes cut in half to 6% that he would hire twice as many maids and buy twice as many ipads and get twice as many dogs and cats.

Its kind of weird that you dont care that your taxes go to welfare anyways, and youre subsidizing every employee at walmart who goes on medicare/ss/food stamps/etc. Wouldnt you prefer that walmart actually had to bear the costs of their employees???? in my town walmart full timers (lol wait, walmart doesnt have full time people) would likely starve to death the instant they had a financial hiccup. Rent is enormous, food costs a lot, gas costs a lot, car insurance costs a lot, cell phone bills, internet. But who needs those.. oh wait everyone because thats basically what you need to keep a retail job nowadays.

People that do not own a business telling business owners what they are doing wrong is always funny.

The potus has been spending like crazy and all that has produced is a deeper hole to crawl out of.

Trickle up economics or spread the wealth? Oh, wait...