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TP-LINK N600 Wireless N Dual Band Gigabit Router w/ 2x USB Ports (TL-WDR3600) EXPIRED

Discombobulated 87,020 February 19, 2013 at 01:00 AM in Mail In Rebate (8) More Newegg Deals
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Promoted 02-19-2013 at 08:17 AM View Original Post
Newegg.com has TP-LINK N600 Wireless N Dual Band Gigabit Router w/ 2x USB Ports (TL-WDR3600) for $68.99 - $15 w/ promo code EMCXVWL24 - $15 rebate = $38.99 with free shipping. Thanks Discombobulated

Price Research: Our research indicates that this TP-LINK TL-WDR3600 N600 Wireless Dual Band Gigabit Router w/ 2x USB Ports is $27 lower (41% savings) than the next best available price from a reputable merchant with prices starting from $66. - brisar

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Edited February 19, 2013 at 02:57 AM by Discombobulated
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#226
Quote from get2Brad View Post :
Can you tell explain your network topology a bit more? Can you tell me every device your MKV hits before it goes on your screen. For example:
PC ---- switch ----- router ----- Xbox ------- TV

If you were just going from PC to the tuners, you wouldn't even touch your router since they are all on the same switch. I prefer to keep all my devices on the same network level (if you will). So I have a 24 port gigabit switch that everything plugs into so every situation would look like this:
source ---- switch ----- destination

I realize not everyone can do that. I would try putting your devices as close as you can (network-wise) and see what happens. Another suggestion would be to try a program like TVersity.

Prior to adding an additional switch it was PC->Router->Switch->Xbox->TV and this is the same for all four of my Xbox locations with the same results. I may try to run a network cable from one of my XBoxes directly to the new switch eliminating the larger 24port switch just to eliminate it from being part of the problem.


I used TVersity for years and it kind of worked but was clunky and still didn't work 100% of the time.


My network pretty much looks like what you've described (save for the 4prt switch I added for testing LAN handling issues with the router) other than the modem goes to the router rather than the switch. Otherwise everything goes to the switch save for the PC and TV tuners since they need Gigabit and my switch is only 10/100. That router is a gigabit LAN device so the tuners and PC go directly through the router whenever the 4 port gig switch is removed from the equation.
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#227
Quote from Jhya View Post :
Any chance the stock firmware can be modified to include features such as OpenVPN, QoS, transmit power, and stability fixes, etc., similar to Merlin Firmwares for the ASUS RT series?

That way, we can still get Hardware NAT plus all the goodies of 3rd party firmware.
Possible? Yes...in theory.
Is anybody working on it? Not that I know of and probably won't happen. This router is not popular enough, but feel free to give it a go!

You probably don't need hardware NAT.
Quote from OstrichSak View Post :
Nope. The wireless really isn't the issue though. What I'm having issues with are the wired devices.
If you can't get it to work properly on a wired connection, there is another problem somewhere. And it's not going to be fixed by another router.

Is there any transcoding going on? Can the xbox handle those high bitrate movies?
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#228
Quote from drawz View Post :
If you can't get it to work properly on a wired connection, there is another problem somewhere. And it's not going to be fixed by another router.

The LAN ports on a router are managed and some have issues with fulfilling high bandwidth demand over several connections. The router I have running Tomato currently isn't the best hardware money can buy so it's possible that it is the problem. This is why I'm considering trying another router with a quality stock firmware.
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#229
Quote from OstrichSak View Post :
The LAN ports on a router are managed and some have issues with fulfilling high bandwidth demand over several connections. The router I have running Tomato currently isn't the best hardware money can buy so it's possible that it is the problem. This is why I'm considering trying another router with a quality stock firmware.
In theory, this is true, but I highly doubt it's your issue. Not to mention that you already tried putting things on a dedicated switch.

In case you missed my other edit: Is there any transcoding going on? Can the xbox handle those high bitrate movies?
Last edited by drawz February 20, 2013 at 05:27 PM
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#230
If not using the xbox for playback, what video card do you have in your PC? Can it handle those movies if they are local and not streamed? I would ask the same of the xbox if you put it on a flash drive (will it do that?)
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#231
Quote from drawz View Post :
In theory, this is true, but I highly doubt it's your issue. Not to mention that you already tried putting things on a dedicated switch.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing too but I'm running out of ideas.

Quote from drawz View Post :
In case you missed my other edit: Is there any transcoding going on? Can the xbox handle those high bitrate movies?


No. I used to use TVersity to transcode on the fly but everything should be streaming directly at this point with the Shark007 codecs and add ons. Like I said, I have a buddy with a similar setup and we've tried the same files on both setups and his works flawlessly. I thought it was a codec issue so I stripped everything I had, rebooted, loaded the new codecs that he has and tried again w/o any change.


My problem is that on some files the video still pause very briefly while playing back every few seconds. It's almost like a frame rate drop because it's so subtle but it makes the movie unwatchable. On the ones that do play I can't skip forward or backward w/o it freezing up and crashing WMC7. I can skip forward for about 10min or so and then the video freezes and sometimes the audio will continue. A good example is that I will DL the UFC fights and we don't feel like sitting through the full 3hrs. I would prefer being able to skip forward to the fights but we have to just sit and watch the whole thing.
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#232
Quote from OstrichSak View Post :
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing too but I'm running out of ideas.





No. I used to use TVersity to transcode on the fly but everything should be streaming directly at this point with the Shark007 codecs and add ons. Like I said, I have a buddy with a similar setup and we've tried the same files on both setups and his works flawlessly. I thought it was a codec issue so I stripped everything I had, rebooted, loaded the new codecs that he has and tried again w/o any change.


My problem is that on some files the video still pause very briefly while playing back every few seconds. It's almost like a frame rate drop because it's so subtle but it makes the movie unwatchable. On the ones that do play I can't skip forward or backward w/o it freezing up and crashing WMC7. I can skip forward for about 10min or so and then the video freezes and sometimes the audio will continue. A good example is that I will DL the UFC fights and we don't feel like sitting through the full 3hrs. I would prefer being able to skip forward to the fights but we have to just sit and watch the whole thing.
Feel free to try a router, but I don't think it will help. If this is the only reason for a new router, I'd buy locally so a return is easy if it doesn't help.

Since you're playing in WMC7, I assume the playback is occuring on the PC. This almost sounds like the 24fps vs 23.9xx bug that some video cards/drivers have issues with. I would also wonder if you have hardware accelerated video decoding in use. If so, can your GPU handle those bit rates. If using software decode, is your CPU fast enough?
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#233
An interesting read about hardware NAT from an occasional Tomato developer:
http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com...php?t=7426

Seems that hardware NAT is disabled on other routers when QOS or port forwarding is enabled, even with stock firmware! This is also apparently the same reason that OpenWrt devs would not be able to integrate hardware NAT on this or any other router. There is some impact on performance, but it's pretty minimal and is not relevant at commonly available internet speeds.
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#234
Oos Frown
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#235
Jumbo Frames NOT supported per TP-Link Tech Support

I'm just following up on my own question from page 3 or 4 of the comments where I questioned the support of jumbo frames on the 4pt switch side of the router. Per an email I finally got back from TP-Link,
Quote :
You mean you need to know whether the ethernet port of the TL-WDR3600 support the jumbo frame?
If so, sorry it does not support that.
I did get one none the less and am hopful that DD-WRT or another 3rd party firmware will allow me to enable jumbo frames.
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#236
Quote from drawz View Post :
An interesting read about hardware NAT from an occasional Tomato developer:
http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com...php?t=7426

Seems that hardware NAT is disabled on other routers when QOS or port forwarding is enabled, even with stock firmware! This is also apparently the same reason that OpenWrt devs would not be able to integrate hardware NAT on this or any other router. There is some impact on performance, but it's pretty minimal and is not relevant at commonly available internet speeds.

Interesting from that article the speed difference (ASUS) comparing stock to 3rd party firmware

.. speed over gigabit ethernet.
The results were also very interesting.
Asus with ctl: 66.4MB/s (this is in line with SNB's own test)
Asus without ctl: 45MB/s
Asus with QoS on: 20MB/s
Tomato: 24.1MB/s

I think this shows that Hardware NAT with stock firmware is much better than 3rd party (Tomato). QoS is not all its chalked up to be evidently on consumer grade routers. Seems you muck too much with settings you actually DECREASE performance.
Last edited by boltman2007 February 20, 2013 at 07:46 PM
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#237
Quote from boltman2007 View Post :
Interesting from that article the speed difference (ASUS) comparing stock to 3rd party firmware

.. speed over gigabit ethernet.
The results were also very interesting.
Asus with ctl: 66.4MB/s (this is in line with SNB's own test)
Asus without ctl: 45MB/s
Asus with QoS on: 20MB/s
Tomato with QoS: 24.1MB/s


I think this shows that Hardware NAT with stock firmware is much better than 3rd party (Tomato). QoS is not all its chalked up to be evidently on consumer grade routers. Seems you muck too much with settings you actually DECREASE performance.
Read the authors notes and conclusions carefully. He brings up the fact that Tomato uses the same kernel, same Broadcom proprietary drivers, and less other stuff running. He really shows that hardware NAT on stock firmware is better than software NAT on stock firmware. But that 3rd party firmware with software NAT is better than software NAT on stock firmware.

Virtually no one has > 20 MB/s internet speed. For my money, I'll take QoS.

Perhaps the authors own conclusions are best:
Quote :
Summary: don't use QoS and want best performance: use Asus firmware
Use QoS? use tomato

PS - Don't forget all those numbers are in MB = megabytes, not the Mb = megabits we usually talk about (1 byte = 8 bits).
Last edited by drawz February 20, 2013 at 08:24 PM
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#238
I should also mention that most people have a need for some sort of port forwarding if you do much beyond browse the web and check email. Not sure if hardware NAT is disabled when uPNP opens up a port though.
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#239
Just setup mine with Gargoyle firmware. well spent $40, and let's hope this router last!
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#240
Quote from drawz View Post :
Read the authors notes and conclusions carefully. He brings up the fact that Tomato uses the same kernel, same Broadcom proprietary drivers, and less other stuff running. He really shows that hardware NAT on stock firmware is better than software NAT on stock firmware. But that 3rd party firmware with software NAT is better than software NAT on stock firmware.

You have to compare apples to apples here. Tomato, which has QoS on, is faster than Asus original firmware with QoS. Tomato has no mode with ctl hardware NAT. More importantly, these numbers are for gigabit ethernet transfers, where most of us care about the real bottleneck, which is the internet connection.

QoS is far more important to me than gigabit transfers around my house. Put in a separate switch if you want to maximize those speeds. I think most people would agree that QoS is important unless they are not pushing the limits of their internet connection.

Perhaps the authors own conclusions are best:

PS - Don't forget all those numbers are in MB = megabytes, not the Mb = megabits we usually talk about (1 byte = 8 bits).
wait. QOS for tomato is only enabled on the WAN port. how are they testing it on internal transfers?
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