Anyone had any luck finding jobs requiring general computer knowledge

I personally work in IT at a help desk. It might not be what you want, but it is the easiest way to get your foot in the door. You can stick around for 6 months and move on to other areas within the company. During this time you can take certs on the company's dime or maybe move into something you already know. Larger company help desks can start around $50k which is nice or if it's a small smaller company 30k which isn't too bad either. Depending no where you live it could fluctuate.

Quote from linux_guru : I suppose your thought is that I'm no good at programming. Well, you are welcome to think what you like. I doubt anything that I say would change any of your opinions, and there is nothing to be gained by arguing on the Internet.

Nope, not at all - apologies if my scenario hit close to home for you. Believe me it's a very common situation.

My original advice to you still stands - get into mobile app development. There are a number of rapidly growing areas in software right now, and mobile apps is leading the pack.

Quote from YanksIn2009 : While I will not deny that to some extent during the boom there was an influx of people who had no business being programmers or in IT, arguing that this is the basis for the displacement is simply an exaggeration of that effect imo. <snip>

Ahhh, now we're talking about 2 different things. Software / IT market versus challenges of keeping a job as you get older.

There's no question, the market is booming. It's big & continuing to grow. It's a great field to get into, and you're absolutely right - you have to be good at it to make a lot of money, but that's no different than any profession. You don't have to be 'pro athlete' good unless you're shooting for that CIO position. But you DO have to know what you're doing, know what you're getting into & be willing to work hard & learn new tricks continually.

Getting displaced as you get older is not exclusive to this job field - happens everywhere. It's a concern for me & probaby you and everyone else who's over 40. Yes, there ARE youger people out there waiting to take your job, and they WILL work for less. And if you're working for a crappy company, they'll circulate you out & replace you with someone younger - happens all the time. No denying it.

How to fix that? You really can't - age discrimination is very real & won't go away for a number of reasons/assumptions: Older people are less flexible. They can't learn as fast. They're harder to manage. They can't keep up with new technology. The list goes on & on as to why companies replace older workers with younger ones, but the #1 reason is money. Why should I pay this guy $110k to do a job that a recent graduate can do for 60k?

The answer to that is EXPERIENCE. You're paying nearly double for that person because he/she has 20 years of experience. He knows how the industry works & who the players are. He knows how to work the system & play the game. How to work with the idiots in sales & the egos in the boardroom and the admins who really make everything happen. A good company / good boss will recognize this - a bad company / boss will never think about it.

YOUR job as an employee is to make people recognize this. BE important. BE hard to replace. You can't be irreplacable - no one is irreplacable. Steve Jobs died & Apple didn't disappear. But you can be VALUABLE to a company if you make them realize that.

It's not easy - it's actually quite difficult for most people to do this. The easy way is to be the best worker in your office, but there's only one of those guys & odds are it's not you or me. The second best way is to make yourself higly visible: Talk with people outside of your department. Suggest new ideas. Volunteer for new assignements. Help other people do their jobs better. Talk with your boss on a regular basis, and be known to your boss' boss.

Many many people make the mistake of treating a job like a job - come in, sit down, work for 8 hours exactly and then go home. Some people go through their entire careers doing this & retire happily. The ability to get away with this is rapidly disappearing as companies expect more & more from every worker - THESE are the people that will be replaced with someone younger, cheaper & more ambitious. I know this because (puts on manager hat for a moment) I've done this to people before - not because they're older (they were) but because they would not adapt to the changing needs of the job. Yes, I'm asking you to do more than you did yesterday. Yes, you'll have to work harder. Yes, you'll have to learn new things. No, you're not getting a raise for it. Yes, I know it sucks. If you dig in your heels & refuse, then yes, I WILL find someone else to do it.

It's a different economy & a different way of working than it was 10 years ago. Pensions are almost unheard of, retirement age is a constantly moving target and healthcare is not as generous as it used to be. Companies expect more work for less pay. 0-3% annual increases are the norm.

This is how it is today, and the way to get along here is to understand & work within these hard truths. You hit the nail on the head right here:

Quote from YanksIn2009 : Yes those that survive make very nice salaries. We survive not because we are geniuses but because we are good at what we do, can manage projects or large groups of people and as such are much more valuable to our company that the avg run of the mill senior programmer or tech or engineer. Even then that may not be enough. Not everyone can be a chief. Not everyone can avoid the politics and like I said you do not see too many 60+ year olds in IT.

No, not everyone can be a chief, but you don't have to be. And not everyone can avoid the politics but you shouldn't - you should learn to embrace the politics & use them to your advantage. And no you certainly don't see that many 60+ people in IT, but to be fair the market is not that old. The majority of older IT workers who actually STARTED in IT have only been in it since the late 90s when the market initially exploded.

So I completely agree with you that it can be difficult for an older worker to stay employed in this market, but this is within control of the worker to change. You have to be flexible. You have to constantly learn. You have to be willing to work long hours or weekends on occasion. You have to be OK with that 1%/yr increase in exchange for a stable job. But it's still a VERY strong and rapidly growing field to get into, if you're willing to work hard.

Quote from Jeffbx : Ahhh, now we're talking about 2 different things. Software / IT market versus challenges of keeping a job as you get older. There's no question, the market is booming. It's big & continuing to grow. It's a great field to get into, and you're absolutely right - you have to be good at it to make a lot of money, but that's no different than any profession. You don't have to be 'pro athlete' good unless you're shooting for that CIO position. But you DO have to know what you're doing, know what you're getting into & be willing to work hard & learn new tricks continually. Getting displaced as you get older is not exclusive to this job field - happens everywhere. It's a concern for me & probaby you and everyone else who's over 40. Yes, there ARE youger people out there waiting to take your job, and they WILL work for less. And if you're working for a crappy company, they'll circulate you out & replace you with someone younger - happens all the time. No denying it. How to fix that? You really can't - age discrimination is very real & won't go away for a number of reasons/assumptions: Older people are less flexible. They can't learn as fast. They're harder to manage. They can't keep up with new technology. The list goes on & on as to why companies replace older workers with younger ones, but the #1 reason is money. Why should I pay this guy $110k to do a job that a recent graduate can do for 60k? The answer to that is EXPERIENCE. You're paying nearly double for that person because he/she has 20 years of experience. He knows how the industry works & who the players are. He knows how to work the system & play the game. How to work with the idiots in sales & the egos in the boardroom and the admins who really make everything happen. A good company / good boss will recognize this - a bad company / boss will never think about it. YOUR job as an employee is to make people recognize this. BE important. BE hard to replace. You can't be irreplacable - no one is irreplacable. Steve Jobs died & Apple didn't disappear. But you can be VALUABLE to a company if you make them realize that. It's not easy - it's actually quite difficult for most people to do this. The easy way is to be the best worker in your office, but there's only one of those guys & odds are it's not you or me. The second best way is to make yourself higly visible: Talk with people outside of your department. Suggest new ideas. Volunteer for new assignements. Help other people do their jobs better. Talk with your boss on a regular basis, and be known to your boss' boss. Many many people make the mistake of treating a job like a job - come in, sit down, work for 8 hours exactly and then go home. Some people go through their entire careers doing this & retire happily. The ability to get away with this is rapidly disappearing as companies expect more & more from every worker - THESE are the people that will be replaced with someone younger, cheaper & more ambitious. I know this because (puts on manager hat for a moment) I've done this to people before - not because they're older (they were) but because they would not adapt to the changing needs of the job. Yes, I'm asking you to do more than you did yesterday. Yes, you'll have to work harder. Yes, you'll have to learn new things. No, you're not getting a raise for it. Yes, I know it sucks. If you dig in your heels & refuse, then yes, I WILL find someone else to do it. It's a different economy & a different way of working than it was 10 years ago. Pensions are almost unheard of, retirement age is a constantly moving target and healthcare is not as generous as it used to be. Companies expect more work for less pay. 0-3% annual increases are the norm. This is how it is today, and the way to get along here is to understand & work within these hard truths. You hit the nail on the head right here: No, not everyone can be a chief, but you don't have to be. And not everyone can avoid the politics but you shouldn't - you should learn to embrace the politics & use them to your advantage. And no you certainly don't see that many 60+ people in IT, but to be fair the market is not that old. The majority of older IT workers who actually STARTED in IT have only been in it since the late 90s when the market initially exploded. So I completely agree with you that it can be difficult for an older worker to stay employed in this market, but this is within control of the worker to change. You have to be flexible. You have to constantly learn. You have to be willing to work long hours or weekends on occasion. You have to be OK with that 1%/yr increase in exchange for a stable job. But it's still a VERY strong and rapidly growing field to get into, if you're willing to work hard.

And to my orginal point, why would anyone want to go into such a field? Bust you rear getting a technical degree and get treated like dirt.

Embrace the politics...really? Is that code for be a back stabing, moral-less incompetent? Managers should be judged on how well they get the job done, not on how much they suck up to some bean counter, stick it to some other peer or otherwise help their inept and\or incompetent, do-nothing leadership look good by doing their job for them while they take the credit. This is what you are advocating? There is a reason a lot of technical people get hurt by this a lot. By their natre they are not tolerant of fools and not politicians. They will not say black is white when they know it is not just because their boss wants them to.

Why follow a path that is already proven to be garbage? Yes we are not the only industry that suffers from this. We are one of the worst with it though. The first groups to get outsourced are IT\enginering and Customer Service. The pay is not all that great on the average. The hours are long, the politics are terrible and in the end you could very well be driving an auto parts truck or working at Walmart. Go into business for yourself. Get a degree in Accounting and become a CFP or CPA (you know those are not going to be short of work lol). Anything but a technical field.

Quote from YanksIn2009 : Why follow a path that is already proven to be garbage? Yes we are not the only industry that suffers from this. We are one of the worst with it though. The first groups to get outsourced are IT\enginering and Customer Service. The pay is not all that great on the average. The hours are long, the politics are terrible and in the end you could very well be driving an auto parts truck or working at Walmart. Go into business for yourself. Get a degree in Accounting and become a CFP or CPA (you know those are not going to be short of work lol). Anything but a technical field.

I work in technology, and I've seen both sides of the argument taking place. I am now making 70% of what I once did, because someone else was cheaper to hire, garbage office politics, and idiot managers who would rather go over deadlines with poor work than pay extra for competent workers to finish on time with quality work.

But that stuff is everywhere, and a lot of it is out of our individual control.

I'm doing OK now, because I swallowed my pride and didn't hold out for the perfect position or equal pay. I'm in Chicago, and there are jobs here. But you have to be realistic, if you made $80k in job A and lost that job it's probably not an $80k position in today's market. When you look for another of "job A" today, it's probably a $60k position or less in today's market. It's the free market and a down economy, we as employees have to react/adjust.. Sure it sucks, but it's the reality of our situations.

I still recommend the field to those who enjoy it, but it's more important now than ever to show you are current on things, like getting updated certs, especially if you are older.

FWIW, even at the reduced pay i'm at today, i'm happier in my current position than I ever have been.

My only advice is to start to get certifications. If you are good at Drupal and want to do that, I suggest starting with the MCSA SQL Server Certification, and Oracle's Java 7 Associate certification. Generally I would argue this knowledge is expected for better Drupal jobs, and both of those are "worthwhile" certs, in my opinion. I don't think a worthwhile Drupal certification exists, which is why I didn't recommend one. Maybe someone else knows more than I.

Also learn Python and PHP if you don't know it.

What were your two college degrees in?

Look into journalistic papers going digital, and online magazines who need the help. But becareful, once they get your code, functions, etc they dump you fast.

Quote from YanksIn2009 : Embrace the politics...really? Is that code for be a back stabing, moral-less incompetent? Managers should be judged on how well they get the job done, not on how much they suck up to some bean counter, stick it to some other peer or otherwise help their inept and\or incompetent, do-nothing leadership look good by doing their job for them while they take the credit. This is what you are advocating?

Certainly not - you seem to be lumping politics as only the negative things that go on.

Understanding the office politics means understanding how things flow. Who are figureheads, and who actually get things done. Politics does NOT mean stabbing someone in the back or sucking up to your bosses - incompetent people do that to get ahead when their talent can't carry them.

You need to keep in mind that ALL offices have politics - call it culture, call it work environment, call it whatever; but if you don't understand it & find a way to operate within it, you'll be left behind.

So when I say 'embrace the politics', I mean UNDERSTAND them & learn how to navigate them.

Quote from Jeffbx : Certainly not - you seem to be lumping politics as only the negative things that go on. Understanding the office politics means understanding how things flow. Who are figureheads, and who actually get things done. Politics does NOT mean stabbing someone in the back or sucking up to your bosses - incompetent people do that to get ahead when their talent can't carry them. You need to keep in mind that ALL offices have politics - call it culture, call it work environment, call it whatever; but if you don't understand it & find a way to operate within it, you'll be left behind. So when I say 'embrace the politics', I mean UNDERSTAND them & learn how to navigate them.

Well it is my experience that for every person like ourselves that get things done by figuring out how things work in a company and how to get things done in spitre of it and who works and who doesn't, there are literally 100s if not 1000's of people that retain their job and get ahead by doing those very negative things you profess are not part of politics (sucking up, back stabbing, etc). They are by far the norm not the exception, esp. in large corps.

If your argument is that if you are one of the few that can succeed in this area and still manage not to step on a land mine or gret outsourced to some guy making 1/3 of what you do then you will do great, that is hardly a ringing endorsement for the industry. My experience is that most middle and upper level management are generally some combination of incompetent moron, fool or plain old extreme jerks . Most have gotten to where they are by being jerks or by knowing someone not by great skills or achieving project objectives on a job well done. The ones that have achieved those positions due to merit are the very very small minority.

This is certainly not something specific to IT, but we are by and large the absolute worst area in most companies in my experience. No other group is usualy filled with as many incompetent management fools unless you consider the Program Management Office not part of IT lol.

Is there something your interested in software wise? Have you tried doing work for a open source project? They hire right off their lists. It would probably take 6 months or so of invested time.