Newegg | Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm (PC) -- $29.99 + Free Shipping (Starts 2/23)

Quote from Sephoroth : ...How can PvP be unbalanced?

I mean player vs player not protoss vs protoss.Mirror matchups are of course, always balanced.

Quote from ctsinc : I mean player vs player not protoss vs protoss.Mirror matchups are of course, always balanced.

Ah. That makes much more sense. I'd expect the game's balancing to be improved as time passes much like WoL. The game is still fairly new; I would assume viable strategies using and countering the changes are also still being developed.

One of the changes I like is I'm at least hoping in PvP's (Protoss versus Protoss), player's don't always simply 4 gate or 3 gate robo 95% of the time as usually happens right now.

So this deal appears to be dead as of yesterday?

"The promo code EMCYTZT2976 has expired and is no longer valid."

Quote from Sephoroth : Ah. That makes much more sense. I'd expect the game's balancing to be improved as time passes much like WoL. The game is still fairly new; I would assume viable strategies using and countering the changes are also still being developed. One of the changes I like is I'm at least hoping in PvP's (Protoss versus Protoss), player's don't always simply 4 gate or 3 gate robo 95% of the time as usually happens right now.

WoL isnt balanced, and it never will be. The game itself is IMPOSSIBLE to balance, with it's retarded design. The problem is the base staple units of zerglings, marines, and zealots must be equally balanced for anythign else to be possible -- and they aren't. The idiots at Blizzard keep making tweaks here and there to the specialty units which in the end only serves to create sweeping changes that flip race imbalance one way or the other, because the staple units do not balance out the differences. Case in point: zergling vs terran are completely and utterly USELESS. They are the most pitiful unit in the game -- total lack of cost efficiency, and practically never do any damage. You simply CANNOT trade a tier 1 zerg army with a tier 1 terran army and come out on top. It's IMPOSSIBLE. On top of that, the other races have very useful units to spend excess minerals on. Zealots, helions (OP AS HELL), and marines all cost minerals ONLY, and have a high effective usefulness throughout an entire game. Zerglings, on the other hand... are 100% useless after about the 8 minute mark. Their damage is well below that of the others, and they never live long enough to do any damage, anyway. You can't do anything with them, except throw them away hoping they will somehow delay the imminent arse rape of your ridiculously expensive units -- which they almost never succeed in. Marines and zealots can easily be used to harass mineral lines and snipe out buildings. Zerglings on the other hand, can't do either.

Another of incredibly blatant imbalance are buildings. 8 marines can snipe a hatchery in 21 seconds. 4 zealots can do it in 22 seconds. 16 zerglings can take down a Nexus in 18 seconds, and they can't take down a command center at all. Now, keep in mind, it's ridiculously easy for terran or protoss to defend against zerglings, but practically impossible for zerg to defend against the others. Let's say for the sake of argument that the zerg was willing to research drops (LOL), and dropped those units into the other base, in similar fashion to how the others do it. Now imagine you're playing against someone that's not in bronze league, and they actually defend against it. The marines and zealots can easily knock the hatch down to half HP, and let's pretend the terran is a complete retard and doesn't lift his CC (oh wait, actually they don't have to lift because he can just send 2-3 SCVs to repair it and keep on mining like nothing happened, so it's smart not to lift), and loses half HP. The nexus loses half as well (which means only shields were lost). The terran's CC can be full life in under 10 seconds. The Protoss nexus takes a bit longer....500 seconds. Zerg, on the other hand, takes just under 3,000 seconds to regenerate half it's life. Taking into account the incredibly lower HP of a hatchery, that's pretty retarded. ALSO, keep in mind that losing a hatchery is not just a loss of income, as it is with terran and protoss. It's also a loss of the equivalent of 3 production buildings as well. That's why a hatch snipe is basically game-ending for a zerg, whereas losing a building or two as a terran or protoss is nothing more than a small inconvenience.

Now, herp derprrans and more reasonable protoss would say that winrate is roughly the same across the board, and that OH WOW, zergs have won a few tournaments lately. It is NOT because the game is balanced, it's because the players work harder to overcome the imbalance. Also, you can't say that because someone with 300 APM can make a race work, that it's balanced. Balance means that you can accomplish the same results with the same or similar investment in effort. Saying that a Zerg player with 300 APM beating a Protoss player with 100 APM means the game is balanced, is just asinine. That's like saying that since a Honda Accord can keep up with a Ferrari at 1/3 throttle, the cars are equal in performance. Tournament results are NOT the way to determine if a game is balanced -- because that only tells the story at one INCREDIBLY TINY skill level. For the other 99% of the game, it's broken, and there is no solution in sight because Blizzard doesn't know HOW to balance the game, since they don't understand the basic rules of combat.

Thanks HAND

Quote from ctsinc : WoL isnt balanced, and it never will be. The game itself is IMPOSSIBLE to balance, with it's retarded design. The problem is the base staple units of zerglings, marines, and zealots must be equally balanced for anythign else to be possible -- and they aren't. The idiots at Blizzard keep making tweaks here and there to the specialty units which in the end only serves to create sweeping changes that flip race imbalance one way or the other, because the staple units do not balance out the differences. Case in point: zergling vs terran are completely and utterly USELESS. They are the most pitiful unit in the game -- total lack of cost efficiency, and practically never do any damage. You simply CANNOT trade a tier 1 zerg army with a tier 1 terran army and come out on top. It's IMPOSSIBLE.

I strongly disagree with this. [youtube.com] Go to 1:00 to see unequal supply/mineral (in terran's favor) result in a zerg victory. Go to 1:12 to see equal supply counts without the zerg taking a single zergling loss. Sure there is no micro from the terran player involved, but there is also no micro from the zerg player. Sure the terran player doesn't have stim, but the zerg player doesn't have speed, adrenal glands, or creep spread in the area.

Quote from ctsinc : On top of that, the other races have very useful units to spend excess minerals on. Zealots, helions (OP AS HELL), and marines all cost minerals ONLY, and have a high effective usefulness throughout an entire game. Zerglings, on the other hand... are 100% useless after about the 8 minute mark.

I once again strongly disagree. Zerglings are the best tier one unit in the game for map control and rapid harass. In comparison, zealots are quite slow, expensive in cost, and take up quite a bit of supply (i.e. 4x the mineral/supply cost of zerglings). Sure they may be a bit harder to micro on an individual basis than the other tier one units due to the large numbers of them, but they are cheap enough where losing a few uselessly matters significantly less than losing a few of the other races' tier one units.

I believe zerglings have quite a notable purpose after the 8 minute mark in meatshielding for the rest of a zerg's army (much like zealots do for the protoss) such as for roaches (e.g. against marauders) and/or in trapping/surrounding enemy armies to prevent their stutter- step or make them vulnerable to banelings and any other higher tier unit.

Quote from ctsinc : Their damage is well below that of the others, and they never live long enough to do any damage, anyway. You can't do anything with them, except throw them away hoping they will somehow delay the imminent arse rape of your ridiculously expensive units -- which they almost never succeed in. Marines and zealots can easily be used to harass mineral lines and snipe out buildings. Zerglings on the other hand, can't do either.

Yes, on an individual level their damage is well below the other tier one units. This is because they have by far the fastest build time (~12 seconds per zergling vs 25 per marine and 38 per zealot prior to warp gate completion), the cheapest mineral cost (25 mineral per zergling vs 50 per marine and 100 per zealot), and the cheapest supply cost of all tier one units (0.5 supply per zergling versus 1 per marine and 2 per zealot).

It is the easier to harass with zerglings than any other tier one unit as far as I'm concerned simply due to their speed and resulting provision of map control (when paired with creep). IMO it is not near as easy to harass with zealots as their slow speed makes it difficult for them to escape from enemies.

Quote from ctsinc : Now, keep in mind, it's ridiculously easy for terran or protoss to defend against zerglings, but practically impossible for zerg to defend against the others.

Once again, I disagree. In defense, the zerg gain creep advantage providing vision as well as a speed boost to nearly every unit. Is it easy for any race to defend against zerglings when they know they are coming? Yes (e.g. via terran turtling/walling and via protoss walling/cannoning). That said, it is similarly true vice-versa with creep spread and spine crawler placement (not to mention queens on creep have range and move faster than zealots).

Quote from ctsinc : Another of incredibly blatant imbalance are buildings. 8 marines can snipe a hatchery in 21 seconds. 4 zealots can do it in 22 seconds. 16 zerglings can take down a Nexus in 18 seconds, and they can't take down a command center at all.

Perhaps zerglings can't easily kill a command center, but they can kill the SCV's repairing it and repair costs aren't completely free.

Quote from ctsinc : Let's say for the sake of argument that the zerg was willing to research drops (LOL), and dropped those units into the other base, in similar fashion to how the others do it. Now imagine you're playing against someone that's not in bronze league, and they actually defend against it.

You're ignoring that the zerg also have access to nydus worms which permit even faster transfer and safe retreat of zerg armies which the other races lack.

Quote from ctsinc : The marines and zealots can easily knock the hatch down to half HP, and let's pretend the terran is a complete retard and doesn't lift his CC (oh wait, actually they don't have to lift because he can just send 2-3 SCVs to repair it and keep on mining like nothing happened, so it's smart not to lift), and loses half HP.

Then kill the SCV's first? I'm confused on how this is OP; we're not even talking about planetary fortresses here.

Quote from ctsinc : The nexus loses half as well (which means only shields were lost).

Well that's convenient for the protoss.

Quote from ctsinc : The terran's CC can be full life in under 10 seconds.

Using minerals for repair and stopping mining time of SCV's....

Quote from ctsinc : The Protoss nexus takes a bit longer....500 seconds. Zerg, on the other hand, takes just under 3,000 seconds to regenerate half it's life. Taking into account the incredibly lower HP of a hatchery, that's pretty retarded.

...and once again you're ignoring other factors and/or are misconstruing structure traits.
1. Zerg hatcheries do not have "incredibly lower HP" compared to both other races. Command centers and hatcheries both have 1500 HP and have 1 armor. Protoss Nexuses have 1000 HP (with 1 armor) and 1000 SP points (which takes full damage as it is not armored).
2. Protoss structures cannot regain HP (albeit they do regain shield points for free fairly rapidly when not being attacked).
3. All terran structures regaining HP have a cost associated with them (i.e. the cost of repair minerals as well as lost mining time). Furthermore, terran structures can burn down if SCV's are not present to safely repair the structure (though lift off is quite the useful feature to prevent this from happening).
4. Zerg structures can regain HP for free (unlike the other races) without any loss so long as they are on creep (though they lose HP off of creep). Players are also able to use a queen's transfuse ability on structures should they believe it may save it (alternatively creep tumors may be used near the hatchery to ensure that if/when it does go down, other structures do not die.

Quote from ctsinc : ALSO, keep in mind that losing a hatchery is not just a loss of income, as it is with terran and protoss. It's also a loss of the equivalent of 3 production buildings as well. That's why a hatch snipe is basically game-ending for a zerg, whereas losing a building or two as a terran or protoss is nothing more than a small inconvenience.

Though this is somewhat true, there are more factors that come into play (e.g. larvae doesn't immediately die and thus units can still be made if the enemy retreats, terran orbital commands provide map vision with scan, nexuses provide chrono which is very useful in increasing production early-mid game and in researching technologies). The bigger issue to me would be when zergs lose lair/hive tech (especially if along with their spawning pool) and have to restart the tech tree and be careful not to lose other structures.

Quote from ctsinc : Now, herp derprrans and more reasonable protoss would say that winrate is roughly the same across the board, and that OH WOW, zergs have won a few tournaments lately. It is NOT because the game is balanced, it's because the players work harder to overcome the imbalance. Also, you can't say that because someone with 300 APM can make a race work, that it's balanced. Balance means that you can accomplish the same results with the same or similar investment in effort. Saying that a Zerg player with 300 APM beating a Protoss player with 100 APM means the game is balanced, is just asinine. That's like saying that since a Honda Accord can keep up with a Ferrari at 1/3 throttle, the cars are equal in performance. Tournament results are NOT the way to determine if a game is balanced -- because that only tells the story at one INCREDIBLY TINY skill level. For the other 99% of the game, it's broken, and there is no solution in sight because Blizzard doesn't know HOW to balance the game, since they don't understand the basic rules of combat. Thanks HAND

Are you suggesting all of the zerg professionals are just so much better than the terran and protoss players naturally, and intentionally strain themselves by knowingly picking the more difficult race to play? If so, I'd like a citation or two.

TLDR: I disagree.

The very fact that there is so much disagreement in the game composition and balance as a result means that it IS as balanced as can be. If one race were OP/UP'd then most people would complaining about that race only, but thats not the case. There is pretty good dispersion of different forces even among the top pros, so if they are not bickering like idiots all the time about balance, then maybe master/diamond players shouldnt either, and anyone lower than that should just shut up and learn more before opening their mouths.

In the end its a fun game for millions, and there are millions of games that are fun out there.... pick one u like and play it.

is this expired??? DARN IT!!!! What do you all think.. Wait till $30 again (before pre-release) or just cave and buy it retail?

the game will be gauge on the users capability. you will make the balance as a player not the game. (multiplayer).. you make counter measures on what ever your opponent is going to go for, that is were scouting skills be brought in. the game itself is so old but yet patronize by many countries.. millions enjoy this game, sure not everybody will be at the same level, but the fun is unimaginable fo those who undestands. starcraft is on a class of its own..

The cancelled my order!! bastards

My order went through and I have a LaserShip tracking number. Hopefully it arrives before the weekend.

For those who have preordered I have an update.

Got charged in the morning. But I saw that it was talking about Egg-Saver shipping which means it will be delivered in 5-7days. But now I received a tracking number from UPS so I am guessing it will be ShopRunner shipping which is awesome. It will be here right on time. Good job so far Newegg!

My farking CC was declined because I derped out and put the wrong expiration date.

I ASSUME they've shipped today. If so, great, missed getting it on release day.

Why the fark they didn't bother to check if you had funds when you ordered is beyond me; cost me launch day events.

ALL TO SAVE $10 $8, 'CAUSE LOL TAX.

FWIW, I ordered back in September. Had plenty of time to prevent any problems.

Edit: Ended up getting it the same day of release, though almost around noon. At least Fedex can deliver at acceptable times, unlike UPS (8PM).

Is there any other $30 deals for this?