Did You Know? There Are No Penalties for Illegal Credit Card Use?

Just got off the phone with Chase Credit Protection Fraud cause someone tried to use my card to buy $323 worth of car parts online. She told me flat out that majority of the time nothing happens to these people.

I called StreetSideAuto.com, the website he ordered from, and they wouldn't give me his address. I don't understand why if they have an address, they still won't prosecute or find the guy. I've never heard of anyone using someone's card illegally and getting fined or jailed for it, have you?

If this guy knows he can get away with using credit card numbers illegally, then he's gonna keep on doing it. I don't understand what the deal is here. I can't do anything cause I'm not a cop.

It's a complicated problem with far-reaching implications. If they made sweeping laws with mandatory punishment for spending other people's money then pretty much all liberals would end up in jail or dead.

Quote from stevenq : Just got off the phone with Chase Credit Protection Fraud cause someone tried to use my card to buy $323 worth of car parts online. She told me flat out that majority of the time nothing happens to these people. I called StreetSideAuto.com, the website he ordered from, and they wouldn't give me his address. I don't understand why if they have an address, they still won't prosecute or find the guy. I've never heard of anyone using someone's card illegally and getting fined or jailed for it, have you? If this guy knows he can get away with using credit card numbers illegally, then he's gonna keep on doing it. I don't understand what the deal is here. I can't do anything cause I'm not a cop.

If the person used a stolen cc online he would need your billing address right? How do you know the shipping address isn't some random persons address where the thief will be waiting for the package?

How did they get your info?

Day to day people, just like you, do this all the time. Here's a lost wallet someone found on Reddit. http://i.imgur.com/hLEqf.jpg


...card cloning in the US doesn't really have any big consequences since we still use the old magstripe system, while the rest of the world has moved on to Chip & PIN which puts the liability more into the hand of the consumer, because it is supposedly "fraud proof (it isn't but it's a helluva lot more secure than what we have now".


I could go on ebay grab a magstripe, grab a few cc#s by the dozen (probably more) for maybe $5 off some Russian forum, and grab some blank magstripe cards and a nice card printer and start cloning cards. The easy way of course is to just use and dump the numbers online, and not bother with physical cards at all, but depends on your use case.


When one card gets caught in the system, just toss it/destroy it, and move on to the next victim. Usually you just want to hit cards for a few hundred/thousand dollars and move on to the next one, because the fraud dept. will catch it quick.


No, I have not done it, but it's really not hard. Getting caught by the FBI for doing this though, is your real deterrent if you're a big player in doing this.

Quote from dzap : Day to day people, just like you, do this all the time. Here's a lost wallet someone found on Reddit. http://i.imgur.com/hLEqf.jpg ...card cloning in the US doesn't really have any big consequences since we still use the old magstripe system, while the rest of the world has moved on to Chip & PIN which puts the liability more into the hand of the consumer, because it is supposedly "fraud proof (it isn't but it's a helluva lot more secure than what we have now". I could go on ebay grab a magstripe, grab a few cc#s by the dozen (probably more) for maybe $5 off some Russian forum, and grab some blank magstripe cards and a nice card printer and start cloning cards. The easy way of course is to just use and dump the numbers online, and not bother with physical cards at all, but depends on your use case. When one card gets caught in the system, just toss it/destroy it, and move on to the next victim. Usually you just want to hit cards for a few hundred/thousand dollars and move on to the next one, because the fraud dept. will catch it quick. No, I have not done it, but it's really not hard. Getting caught by the FBI for doing this though, is your real deterrent if you're a big player in doing this.

When are we going to make the transition to the "fraud-proof" cards?

Quote from calistyle : When are we going to make the transition to the "fraud-proof" cards?

Yeah well the problem we have right now, is we have to change EVERYTHING. I mean literally every, single POS system at every location in the entire country, to this. Pretty much we are holding any of that back though, as almost all Chip&PIN systems in the world allow for the traditional magstripe to be used as well for US based cards and in the rare, rare, rare, rare case that the Chip&PIN system is down for some reason.


Most merchants don't want to use magstripe though because the banking codes have been updated to pretty much put the liability on the merchant in case fraud happens if they process a classic magstripe transaction, vs. chip & PIN which puts the liability on the customer itself.


Pretty much you need BOA, Chase, Wells Fargo, Citibank, etc. the big banks to force it onto merchants. That's happening this year.


The UK/Western Europe started doing it back I think early 2005/2006 and they're more or less completely converted, at this point. I also remember when I was travelling throughout South East Asia about 2 years ago, all the POS systems/cards/ATMs were essentially converted for chip & PIN.


Canada will be completing their conversion by 2015, but we have barely started it at all. We're supposed to start this year (finally!)
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399772,00.asp

Here's a nifty little map of adoption worldwide (guess which huge economic global powerhouse country hasn't adopted it?)


Some big banks like BOA, Chase, Citi have started issuing EMV/Chip*Pin/.Signature cards already for use ABROAD.
https://www.bankofamerica.com/credit-cards/chip-and-signature-faq.go

You can also see here a few BOA cards with the chip..
https://www.bankofamerica.com/credit-cards/view-all-credit-cards.go

Chase also has a few (again, for use abroad, since the chip is currently useless in the US)
https://creditcards.chase.com/credit-card-search.aspx

Looks like Citi has 7.
https://creditcards.citi.com/credit-cards/view-all-credit-cards

You can check here for a nice spreadsheet FlyerTalk has tried to keep up to date with Chip&PIN/signature cards in the US (or ones that you can convert to chip&PIN).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ani-u3tGk5hedGRvcE1ELVg5UmlGZk01SHZvTUMxdUE#gid=0

TL;DR: This year. It'll take probably a few more years after that though before every merchant starts switching to chip&PIN/Signature (I personally prefer Chip&Signature). Most likely unless we have a government mandate, most businesses are just going to still use the old magstripe for their readers, unless they see a real benefit (such as in the UK where the liability shifts from merchant to consumer).

Quote from calistyle : When are we going to make the transition to the "fraud-proof" cards?

I was in Canada yesterday. They put my credit card in a reader at a couple stores I went to and asked me to put my PIN number in. I told them I don't have a PIN number cause I'm from the United States. They were like, "Oh!"

Apparently credit cards in Canada have a magnetic stripe and a chip inside which works like an ATM card. It's an additional layer of security.

Quote from stevenq : I was in Canada yesterday. They put my credit card in a reader and asked me to put my PIN number in. I told them I don't have a PIN number cause I'm from the United States. They were like, "Oh!" Apparently credit cards in Canada have a magnetic stripe and a chip inside which works like an ATM card. It's an additional layer of security.

Correct. They were probably thinking "Oh, he's from the third world. We'll have to process his transaction the old fashioned way." They should have known you were American though by lack of chip. Canadians are usually friendly I assume with that, but when I was at Starbucks in Singapore I handed them my Visa, they looked at me funny and said "You're American, aren't you?"


...and they had to pull out a different machine from the back counter to process the transaction. It's really embarrassing honestly because you hold the line up. Luckily in Japan I didn't have any of that crap, since they are very accommodating to foreigners.

Quote from Zodiac : If the person used a stolen cc online he would need your billing address right? How do you know the shipping address isn't some random persons address where the thief will be waiting for the package?

Quote from handyguy : How did they get your info?

I'm guessing he didn't need my billing address to complete the transaction onine. Streetsideauto.com doesn't look like a big outfit so maybe they don't require it. I don't know how they got my cc number. There's lots of opportunities for people to get it. They could get it from a retailer I went to. When you give your credit card to the waiter do you really know what they are doing with it?

The card is a Chase Sapphire card. It's made of metal. The numbers aren't printed brazenly on the front like most credit cards but rather the back underneath the signature. It looks like it's laser etched into the metal in thin smaller case which makes it hard to see. It's annoying to me because I own the card and it's hard for me to use sometimes cause the numbers are hard to see.

Surprising. FBI has been doing some huge busts lately for credit card fraud. Anyone hear about Operation Carder Profit?

Quote from Squilly : Surprising. FBI has been doing some huge busts lately for credit card fraud. Anyone hear about Operation Carder Profit?

Yup.
Geographical distribution of the arrests: United Kingdom (6 arrests), Bosnia (2), Bulgaria (1), Norway (1), and Germany (1)
..no one in the US though (considering $205 million was at stake, no shit. I wouldn't want to set foot on US territory either...)

But that's all it takes. 11 people. $205 million. 411,000 credit and debit card numbers. Most of which I believe are US numbers because the rest of the world has pretty much moved on to the EMV standard or have way stricter banking regulations (e.g. In Japan if you wish to do online banking, you must physically walk into a branch and register and confirm with paperwork. You are not allowed to sign up online).

Quote from dzap : Yup. Geographical distribution of the arrests: United Kingdom (6 arrests), Bosnia (2), Bulgaria (1), Norway (1), and Germany (1) ..no one in the US though (considering $205 million was at stake, no shit. I wouldn't want to set foot on US territory either...) But that's all it takes. 11 people. $205 million. 411,000 credit and debit card numbers. Most of which I believe are US numbers because the rest of the world has pretty much moved on to the EMV standard or have way stricter banking regulations (e.g. In Japan if you wish to do online banking, you must physically walk into a branch and register and confirm with paperwork. You are not allowed to sign up online).

Pretty sure 13 were arrested from the US

Quote from dzap : Yup. Geographical distribution of the arrests: United Kingdom (6 arrests), Bosnia (2), Bulgaria (1), Norway (1), and Germany (1) ..no one in the US though (considering $205 million was at stake, no shit. I wouldn't want to set foot on US territory either...) But that's all it takes. 11 people. $205 million. 411,000 credit and debit card numbers. Most of which I believe are US numbers because the rest of the world has pretty much moved on to the EMV standard or have way stricter banking regulations (e.g. In Japan if you wish to do online banking, you must physically walk into a branch and register and confirm with paperwork. You are not allowed to sign up online).

If Operation Carder Profit is the same as Operation Card Shop:

Quote : Today’s coordinated action—involving 13 countries, including the United States—resulted in 24 arrests, including the domestic arrests of 11 individuals by federal and local authorities in the United States, and the arrests of 13 individuals abroad by foreign law enforcement in seven countries.

https://www.fbi.gov/newyork/press...e-takedown