Government steals from us?

Quote from Elmer : It's set up that way to make people think it was never their money to begin with. If people had to write a check every month for their taxes, we would see tax reform and smaller government faster that a speeding bullet.

Yup. I've said it before, the govt was brilliant to have 50% of the payroll taxes paid by the employer in order to make the worker's share much "smaller".

If people had to write a check for, or had deducted, 100% of their total payroll taxes (like us self-employeds pay), a lot of eyes would be opened and a ton of people would get angry really, really, really fast.

Quote from 124nic8 : You mean like enforcing civil rights? How's that "even worse"?

Well, I am not sure if Rand Paul is excited about the CRA. I can't wait to see how many rightwingers here and elsewhere would show their hands and support Rand Paul in 2016.

Quote from 124nic8 : What if the budgeted growth is only 2% for next year, just to keep up with inflation of 2%? Then it would be a real inflation adjusted cut of 2%.

Who cares. We could easily cut 20% and offer more services/benefits. Does no one care about efficiency? Why does the government have to over pay for everything? I guess half of it is the corruption/theft though. In many cases we are overpaying the friends/families of our politicians.

While it may be legal, it's reasonable for some of us to call it theft. I didn't vote for any of those politicians or laws that increase spending. I don't agree with a lot of the spending. There is not much that I can do about that.

Maybe I'll move to another country that's less screwed up someday... I've already lived in a dozen countries or so. Hopefully the dollar will still be worth enough when that happens. Right now, I still think this is the best country for me and my family.

Quote from MISHNAH : Ummm, most all countries try to help those less fortunate or sick. However, the US has turned it into a god-damned industry, along with letting those who do not produce anything literally able to live off the productivity of other people. Whereas most countries push their smartest and brightest to suceed, in the US, the govt wants to make sure we advance only as far as the weakest link does.

And in reality news, the US is still the only Western industrialized country w/o taxpayer funded UHC.

Quote from 124nic8 : And in reality news, the US is still the only Western industrialized country w/o taxpayer funded UHC.

Good thing, too.

BTW - several industrialized western nations have mixed-payer UHC...you did know this, right? Right?

So while Germany and France has mixed-payer systems, England, Canada, Spain have 100% taxpayer-funded systems.

But you know this, right? If you didn't know, then what compelled you to post that nonsense above?

Also, the US does have taxpayer-funded UHC - it's called Medicare. Funded in part by taxes and not mandatory, it is still taxpayer UHC.

Quote from andyfico : Ah yes. If you don't like it, get out. I love that line. "Blacks can't vote". "Hey that's not fair!!" "If you don't like it, you are free to a move to a country that allows them to vote". "Gays can't marry". "Hey that's not fair!!!". "If you don't like it, you are free to move to a country that lets them get married". Forget looking into changing things.. Let's just tell people to get the hell out if they complain. This close minded approach is awesome!

I only used this to make the point that living here and paying taxes is not slavery. You'd know that if you'd paid attention to the context. You're not forced to live here, but if you do choose to live here, paying taxes is part of being a citizen. Why? Because the american people SHOULD have to give something back for everything they get from the government. We can bicker all we want about the amounts or how the money is used, but trying to make the claim that paying taxes is theft or slavery is just ridiculous.

Especially when WE'RE the ones who vote in the guys who misuse our tax money.

Quote from riznick : While it may be legal, it's reasonable for some of us to call it theft. I didn't vote for any of those politicians or laws that increase spending. I don't agree with a lot of the spending. There is not much that I can do about that. Maybe I'll move to another country that's less screwed up someday... I've already lived in a dozen countries or so. Hopefully the dollar will still be worth enough when that happens. Right now, I still think this is the best country for me and my family.

You may not have voted for them, but a majority of your fellow citizens did. That's part of living in a country where people vote. You sometimes have to put up with laws/leaders you don't agree with.


And no, if it's "legal", then it is by definition absurd for you to call it theft. Is paying rent theft? No. You pay rent for the privilege of getting to live in your house/apartment. The same applies to the US. You are not forced to stay here and pay taxes. In fact, you're not forced to pay taxes at all if you don't make any income.

Quote from bridgeburner : Especially when WE'RE the ones who vote in the guys who misuse our tax money.

The problem is that we essentially have a binary choice; the primary difference between dems and repubs for economics is HOW they will abuse spending money that really isn't theirs to begin with, instead of IF.

Quote from bridgeburner : In fact, you're not forced to pay taxes at all if you don't make any income.

It's honestly your belief that those that don't "make enough" according to their laws and code don't pay any taxes? Are you out of you mind?

Quote from jonsmith74 : Good thing, too. BTW - several industrialized western nations have mixed-payer UHC...you did know this, right? Right? So while Germany and France has mixed-payer systems, England, Canada, Spain have 100% taxpayer-funded systems. But you know this, right? If you didn't know, then what compelled you to post that nonsense above? Also, the US does have taxpayer-funded UHC - it's called Medicare. Funded in part by taxes and not mandatory, it is still taxpayer UHC.

Except you have to be 65 for Medicare, so it's not Universal. But you knew that, right?

Quote from barnz008 : It's honestly your belief that those that don't "make enough" according to their laws and code don't pay any taxes? Are you out of you mind?

Explain to me how homeless people pay taxes.

Quote from JackHandey : The problem is that we essentially have a binary choice; the primary difference between dems and repubs for economics is HOW they will abuse spending money that really isn't theirs to begin with, instead of IF.

The fact that we have a binary choice is ALSO our fault. We could vote for 3rd parties. Hell, anyone who wants to can run for office and be any kind of candidate they want.

Quote from bridgeburner : The fact that we have a binary choice is ALSO our fault. We could vote for 3rd parties. Hell, anyone who wants to can run for office and be any kind of candidate they want.

Partly our fault, but I would tend to blame the media more for that one; they tolerate that the major players refuse to enter debates w/3rd part candidates and such. Between the government having direct control of our education, and the media outlets pandering so much to confirmation bias and the big two in politics, it really is pretty much a given and done by design.

Those that actually have a position that is carefully thought out and that they can argue to defend it are a rare breed, and we are truly the exception that can critically think things out. Most (or at least a large majority) of the people that vote do not even know why they are voting for the things and people they do.

It's like an iphone; something that people do to follow the herd, that doesn't give them anything they really need and only go along with because it is "cool". I think it's a safe bet that people go through several generations of iphone before they understand even a fraction of the features and settings on the damned thing. The same with voting, only to am even larger degree.

Of the people that do have some awareness, they tend to vote on one or two core issues. We've by and large allowed ourselves to be ruled by fear, and largely vote against the candidate we despise more than being able to stand behind a candidate we could genuinely applaud.