Recommendations for a photo editing PC

Quote from kakomu : Are you really getting bent out of shape because for 8 minutes (edit at 4:05, next post at 4:13), I didn't explicitly suggest that the OP should get an SSD to supplement the i7 computer I recommended?

No, I was simply pointing out the inconsistency with bagging on the A10 system due to it's hard drive only to turn around and recommend an i7 with a similar hard drive. Yes, both systems would be better served with an SSD, no doubt about it, but that's not at issue here. No one is getting bent out of shape.

Quote from kakomu : Yes, because you decided to take offense to me suggesting that the A series processors are ill-fitted for professional photography (they are). I've made plenty of suggestions to the OP and he understood everything I wrote. You, on the other hand, are attempting to discredit everything I write without looking at any context...even when you quote something that totally contradicts what you're writing.

I never took offense to it, I'm simply pointing out that the A10 can reach the i5 performance levels under the right conditions due to the included powerful GPU.

If I was a professional photographer doing this everyday for a living while making $40k or more per year I wouldn't hesitate to buy an i7 with a discrete GPU. Spending $1000 on something that will save you time is a no brainer. But that's not exactly the situation here. The OP wants a low end system that will get the job done. If he wants to save money and spring for the A10 system it will work just fine and be peppier than what he has now. If he wants to spend $100 more on an i5, as I already said, that would be $100 well spent. We were actually in agreement on the i5!!!

If you're going to accuse me of contradicting myself, at least have the courtesy to point out the supposed contradiction. But I suppose it's much more convenient to lounge back in your ivory tower and hurl stones than it is to do so from the ground.

Quote from brbubba : No, I was simply pointing out the inconsistency with bagging on the A10 system due to it's hard drive only to turn around and recommend an i7 with a similar hard drive.

I bagged on the A10 because it's slow. I mention the HDD in passing.

Quote from brbubba : No one is getting bent out of shape.

You are, considering how frequently you can't even characterize my posts correctly.

Quote from brbubba : I never took offense to it, I'm simply pointing out that the A10 can reach the i5 performance levels under the right conditions due to the included powerful GPU.

The i5 processor you mention is a mobile version, in a laptop. It's disingenuous to conflate desktop and laptop i5 processors The A10 isn't anywhere near desktop i5 performance.

Quote from brbubba : If you're going to accuse me of contradicting myself, at least have the courtesy to point out the supposed contradiction. But I suppose it's much more convenient to lounge back in your ivory tower and hurl stones than it is to do so from the ground.

This is a contradiction:

Quote from brbubba : Quote from kakomu : This desktop, I think, is a better place to start. You would NEED to get a new HDD (preferably an SSD) Also it's somewhat disingenuous for kakomu to knock the AMD system for a standard platter hard drive and then recommend two systems with the same standard hard drive.

Is this a decnt deal? I have some Best Buy points that are about to expire and i can get it for $600. I'd like it for photo editing as well but nothing major. Lightroom 4 to touch up photos. Any thoughts before I pull the trigger if wifey likes it?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenov...&cp=1&lp=4

Quote from azlengua : Is this a decnt deal? I have some Best Buy points that are about to expire and i can get it for $600. I'd like it for photo editing as well but nothing major. Lightroom 4 to touch up photos. Any thoughts before I pull the trigger if wifey likes it? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Lenov...&cp=1&lp=4

I, personally, wouldn't get a Lenovo unless it's a Thinkpad.

Quote from kakomu : I bagged on the A10 because it's slow. I mention the HDD in passing.

Except the hard drive is what I was talking about. The initial point still stands.

Quote from kakomu : You are, considering how frequently you can't even characterize my posts correctly.

I guess you're a mind reader now. Will you be predicting the weather next?

Quote from kakomu : The i5 processor you mention is a mobile version, in a laptop. It's disingenuous to conflate desktop and laptop i5 processors The A10 isn't anywhere near desktop i5 performance.

So then prove it! I at least made an effort to substantiate the claim.

Quote from kakomu : This is a contradiction:

How far did you reach to pick that cherry? Now you're not even quoting quotes correctly. Here's the full, unabridged, set of quotes:

Quote : Quote : Quote from kakomu : Well, it's rather deficient in all areas, except memory. The processor is slow, there's only a 7200rpm mechanical HDD and It only uses the on-board graphics. I edited my previous post to include a link to another desktop: http://www.microcenter.com/produc..._Computer# This desktop, I think, is a better place to start. You would NEED to get a new HDD (preferably an SSD), but the i7-3770 is definitely a good processor that will last you a while. The processor is equivalent to a current gen i3. And saying it uses onboard graphics is a complete misrepresentation. The A series processors have a CPU and GPU on the same die, so it's all integrated. This is NOT the same as traditional "onboard graphics" that intel is known for making. The performance of these GPUs is actually quite high for what it is. That being said, for an extra $100 I probably would bump up to the i5 for the extra performance on the processor side. But double check the GPU performance on that, you might have to end up buying a separate graphics cards. The GPU assist may help quite a bit, see this case in point scenario. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pa...pu,12.html. AMD A10 with GPU acceleration assist brings the performance up to i7 levels. Obviously i7 with discrete vid card creams it though. You'd have to check lightroom and photoshop as tow hat exactly has GPU asssist and see if your wife would benefit from that. Also it's somewhat disingenuous for kakomu to knock the AMD system for a standard platter hard drive and then recommend two systems with the same standard hard drive.

I'm still waiting for the contradiction part, now that the full quote is there...

Honestly, I don't see the big deal here, we are both recommending the same system, the i5. Where we diverge is that I think an i7 is overkill, you don't seem to think that and you think the A10 is too little CPU and I think it would be sufficient.

Quote from brbubba : stuff

No reason to go further. Everything that needs to be said has been said. Obviously I can't convince you of anything.

Keep in mind, despite your belief that somehow I was recommending the HDD in the i7 or i5 system, even the OP knew that wasn't my meaning.

Quote from brbubba : Honestly, I don't see the big deal here, we are both recommending the same system, the i5. Where we diverge is that I think an i7 is overkill, you don't seem to think that and you think the A10 is too little CPU and I think it would be sufficient.

You would think the A10 is sufficient, considering you don't actually use computers for OP's intended purpose.

If you have to batch export 50+ raw photos with specific settings, the difference in time between an A10 and an i7 can very well be several times longer. The difference between my i7 2600K and my C2Q Q8300 was probably somewhere between 15-30 seconds per photo vs. < 10 seconds per photo. The A10 is only marginally faster than my Q8300.

When someone needs to process a lot of photos a time savings like this can be invaluable, especially if something happens and you need to re-export photos or you need to make conversions (e.g from RGB or Adobe RGB to CMYK to send to printers) or you want to batch resize from 17mp down to web-sized copies. The list goes on. If OP's wife intends on doing business as a photographer, she stands to benefit from financing a slightly more expensive machine than just settling with a slow machine.

I know that when I was having to process a lot of photos quickly, my computer's CPU was the weak link. With my i7 2600K, it has become less of an issue.

So to re-cap, partly because I'm putting this shopping endeavor to bed by tomorrow, and partly because I think we're getting bogged down in minutiae, the main divergence of opinions comes in the margins, where the necessary merges into the optimal:

Necessary (prioritized):
Intel i5 processor (or mani-core AMD like the A10)
8GB RAM - with a high capacity for expansion, which will be necessary as jobs get bigger and more complex
A large (1TB-2TB) internal HDD, which is cheap and provided standard with most pre-fab machines anyway
Capable and Adobe-tested onboard graphics, which will provide fast refresh and rendering times
SSD to use either as an application boot drive, or as a scratch drive (the latter seeming to be preferable)
Front-panel ports and card reader for fast, easy access to camera, storage, and tablet
A large external drive (already have a couple of these lying around)
An IPS panel monitor for faithful color and shape display.

Optimal:
Intel i7 processor - This would free up RAM and shift data storage and processing away from common bottlenecks
16GB-32GB RAM - This would increase the machine's capacity for handling additional tasks, like web browsing, while editing software is in use
A powerful discrete GPU (think nVidia GT 4xx to 6xx) - This will also free up RAM that would otherwise be used for rendering and refreshing, but it would probably require additional attention to the computer's PSU.
A large IPS monitor (or multiple displays) to enable previews and multiple applications while editing

What have I missed?

Quote from kakomu : You would think the A10 is sufficient, considering you don't actually use computers for OP's intended purpose. If you have to batch export 50+ raw photos with specific settings, the difference in time between an A10 and an i7 can very well be several times longer. The difference between my i7 2600K and my C2Q Q8300 was probably somewhere between 15-30 seconds per photo vs. < 10 seconds per photo. The A10 is only marginally faster than my Q8300. When someone needs to process a lot of photos a time savings like this can be invaluable, especially if something happens and you need to re-export photos or you need to make conversions (e.g from RGB or Adobe RGB to CMYK to send to printers) or you want to batch resize from 17mp down to web-sized copies. The list goes on. If OP's wife intends on doing business as a photographer, she stands to benefit from financing a slightly more expensive machine than just settling with a slow machine. I know that when I was having to process a lot of photos quickly, my computer's CPU was the weak link. With my i7 2600K, it has become less of an issue.

That's something we can finally agree on.

Quote from komondor : well for right now you don't want to overspend so keep an eye out for the dell outlet in my opinion, if things take a few extra seconds to happen it is not that big of a deal unless you have 3 weddings that need to be done in 2 days.

Dell Outlet has some great deals going right now, but my main hesitation with Dell is that my upgrade options may be limited by their configurations. I'd like to have something I can tweak as needed, rather than scrapping it and starting over in a couple of years.

Quote from kakomu : All things considered, your wife may want to consider a 14.1" laptop with an i7 processor, an external monitor and an NAS. It will probably do everything she needs for photo processing, plus it will allow her to be mobile in case she wants to show clients the photos on-site on something larger than a 3" screen (which is becoming more common). Finally, she may want to consider getting a tablet for use with Photoshop. The Wacom Bamboo tablets are inexpensive lower end tablets (I have one), but she may want an Intuos for something higher end.

I haven't really considered a laptop, honestly. I fell like there's way less flexibility there when it comes to keeping it current.

We do have an Android HP Touchpad that would probably be well-suited for simple field work, and which may occasionally double as a controller for the camera and flash. Photoshop Touch is cheap enough to be worth a try if she just wants to see how things are coming out in real time.

Dell Outlet has some great deals going right now, but my main hesitation with Dell is that my upgrade options may be limited by their configurations. I'd like to have something I can tweak as needed, rather than scrapping it and starting over in a couple of years.

With Dell you have parts that you know will work together and can get onsite support ask yourself this if the motherboard has an issue in a year, and you need to find your box to send it back for repair or replacement how long is the business going to be down?

Dell is not perfect to be sure but most cases you will call on Tuesday and the tech will be there on Thursday to put the part in.

Also you can upgrade the ram video card and usually processor, depending on the system.
Right now processors are so fast it is hard to really peg them out other than stuff like video rendering or high end games.

I built a PC for a friend the motherboard was defective sent it back a week later I have a new board and windows will not start for some odd reason so now I have to try to get that working or just start over.

Do you want the possibility of that kind of issue for a fledgling business, i would in an ideal world buy a Dell with complete care warranty so that even if the PC got dropped it would be fixed/replaced.

You can buy a 3rd party warranty but usually they don't offer replacement as quick.

You also need to make SURE she has onsite and offsite backups, my co-worker's wife is a wedding photographer and one thing he stressed to her is how important it is to make sure you don't lose a picture or wedding due to a drive failure..

you dont need anything fast tbh. I've edited tens of thousands of raw images last year on my cheapo amd 6 core with 8GB ram. There are some tricks I've learned over the years:

1. get a humongous monitor if possible, less need to zoom in to do touchups (shimian if possible)
2. prerender images, have some coffee while the import process does this
3. learn and optimize your workflow with lightroom. At this point, I'm pretty much 100% lightroom user. A good workflow, will speed things up considerably, more than hardware updates IMO.

fast computers make a whole lot difference when dealing with video though, not much with raw photos.

Quote from burninator : SSD to use either as an application boot drive, or as a scratch drive (the latter seeming to be preferable) Front-panel ports and card reader for fast, easy access to camera, storage, and tablet A large external drive (already have a couple of these lying around)

As an aside, the SSD can be used for both. Installing your programs on an SSD will speed up everything on your desktop. Boot time, opening programs, background system processes, temp file creation, etc. On both my desktop and laptop, I have Photoshop set up for scratch on the same SSD that photoshop is installed to.

As for card readers, many of them can be unreliable. If you want a front-panel card reader, look for one of the floppy bay replacement card readers on a website that has a lot of reviews, like Newegg. My mom always wants a card reader on her desktop and she has gone through 3 or 4 different card readers due to inordinately high failure rates. I, personally, found a good USB based card reader and just have it plugged in all the time.

Quote from burninator : I haven't really considered a laptop, honestly. I fell like there's way less flexibility there when it comes to keeping it current.

The only things you can't update will be the processor and graphics. Otherwise, you can update the HDD and memory if-need-be. Steer clear of laptops that solder the components to the board (e.g. ultrabooks, macbook air, etc). Just a suggestion as an alternate.

Quote from burninator : We do have an Android HP Touchpad that would probably be well-suited for simple field work, and which may occasionally double as a controller for the camera and flash. Photoshop Touch is cheap enough to be worth a try if she just wants to see how things are coming out in real time.

I actually meant a pen tablet [amazon.com]. I use one when I need to draw on photographs.

Quote from cdog90260 : fast computers make a whole lot difference when dealing with video though, not much with raw photos.

Fast processors matter most with rendering video, but ram is usually the most important when you're actually working on a scene. Only the heaviest duty filters, like a time remapping filter will really bog a computer down during the editing process. However, most filtering tend to be pretty quick for previewing. In After effects, I can usually cache a video clip in short order on my laptop, even if I'm using something processor intensive like a lens blur filter.

The problem I've usually had on my lower performance machines is usually memory. It is not uncommon for AE to hit the memory ceiling when working on a clip or rendering it out. The processor usually doesn't become the bottleneck until the final render. I also usually render all scenes as uncompressed targa or Tiff files, so I imagine a mechanical HDD might also become a bottleneck depending on use.

Any reason why I wouldn't pick up this HP Envy h8xt [amazon.com] (for a better price than this, of course) and be good for quite a while? It seems to more than meet the basic requirements that have been outlined and debated in this thread.