Olympus E-P3 with 14-42mm or 17mm lens $399.99 FS @newegg

The E-PM2, E-PL5, and E-M5 have completely changed the game with micro 4/3 cameras, because of their vastly improved image quality that is finally competitive with modern-day DSLRs. You have to have a VERY compelling reason to choose this camera over one of the previous generation ones. For example, newegg has the E-PM2 for nearly the same price as this camera. The increase in features/controls just doesn't justify how poor this image quality is compared to what you can buy today. Also, the 17mm is quite the letdown of a lens, being rather poor optically, so although it is stil worth $150-$200 on the used market, this package as a whole is kind of a lesson in obsolescence, as none of this is something that will earn a permanent place in your kit.

Quote from shnitz : The E-PM2, E-PL5, and E-M5 have completely changed the game with micro 4/3 cameras, because of their vastly improved image quality that is finally competitive with modern-day DSLRs. You have to have a VERY compelling reason to choose this camera over one of the previous generation ones. For example, newegg has the E-PM2 for nearly the same price as this camera. The increase in features/controls just doesn't justify how poor this image quality is compared to what you can buy today. Also, the 17mm is quite the letdown of a lens, being rather poor optically, so although it is stil worth $150-$200 on the used market, this package as a whole is kind of a lesson in obsolescence, as none of this is something that will earn a permanent place in your kit.

Word. The E-P3 used a Panasonic sensor. Very long in the tooth at this point. The 5's and the E-PM2 use a Sony sensor making it more competitive with a NEX. At this point, I would suggest people avoid the old Pansonic 12MP sensors.

There is no doubt the current generation of PEN has a improved sensor, but I think it's too harsh to classify the previous generation as "poor image quality". Yes, newegg has the E-PM2 for about the same price, but they probably only have 5 of them put on sales.

Quote from BB88 : There is no doubt the current generation of PEN has a improved sensor, but I think it's too harsh to classify the previous generation as "poor image quality". Yes, newegg has the E-PM2 for about the same price, but they probably only have 5 of them put on sales.

That clown (shnitz) bashes this camera every time someone posts a deal on it, see this thread:

http://slickdeals.net/f/5860738-O...FS-Adorama

Truth is, this camera is more than capable enough in the hands of a real photographer and this is a great price on it.

Quote from jasonh328 : That clown (shnitz) bashes this camera every time someone posts a deal on it, see this thread: http://slickdeals.net/f/5860738-O...FS-Adorama Truth is, this camera is more than capable enough in the hands of a real photographer and this is a great price on it.

True. Already ordered the white model last night. I would rather wait for E-P5/7.

Quote from jasonh328 : That clown (shnitz) bashes this camera every time someone posts a deal on it, see this thread: http://slickdeals.net/f/5860738-O...FS-Adorama Truth is, this camera is more than capable enough in the hands of a real photographer and this is a great price on it.

That's because nothing has changed between now and then to make it any better.

Thanks for posting that last thread. Showing how you back up your claim with "But dpreview gave it a 74%" tells everyone all that they need to know about your photographic knowledge. Also, asking me if I hate the camera because I can't take good photos with them is called an ad hominem; it is considered a logical fallacy, since you have to resort to attacking me instead of being able to tear down my statements. This is a classic case of someone having to overly defend the product they bought to justify their purchase, in the face of overwhelming evidence to getting taken for a ride. Feel free to search google 'til the cows come home with terms such as "E-PL5 vs E-P3" and other creative search terms. You will find that the photographic discussion forums nearly unanimously come to the same conclusion that I've stated above: skip this camera, get something more worthwhile for your money. Even if the E-PL5 didn't have useful features like a touchscreen, tilt screen, etc. it would still be worth jumping to for 50% more money.

And yes, I take just fine photos with the 12MP micro 4/3 cameras. In fact, I still own one. But unlike you, just because I bought a product doesn't mean that I'm going to be a blind cheerleader for it. I can still look at it objectively and point out its shortcomings. And today, in a more crowded market than before, it's not worth buying. A 1955 Studebaker is still a great car in the hands of a "great driver," but that doesn't mean that it's worth buying today; it's obsolete.

Quote from shnitz : That's because nothing has changed between now and then to make it any better.

This statement is the true fallacy. This is an excellent camera and nothing has changed in that regard, despite the release of newer models. The camera takes the same high quality images it took when it was released. Also, the camera in question is an E-P3. You apparently missed that as this camera has the (mostly useless) touchscreen you mentioned as a feature new to the Pen product line. Touchscreens are for toys like point and shoot cameras and iPhones.

I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is: after selling the 17mm f/2.8 for 150 after fees (I typically get 180 or more total, so this is fair), you will have paid 250 for the E-P3 body and many decent lens options like the Panasonic 14-42 exist for ~100 or less (routinely sold at Amazon for as low as 79 new). Show me a better camera AT THIS PRICE POINT (~350). The E-PM2 you mentioned "at the same price" includes either the 14-42 II or 'R' lens, which has a plastic mount and is inferior to the original version in both build and optical quality.

I own quite a few cameras, this one included, and am no "cheerleader" for any product. Some people buy cameras for image quality, rather than touchscreens and other useless fads. I sell much of my work, and the E-P3 has paid for itself many times over (and did so in a much shorter time than my better and more expensive 7D's)

Quote from jasonh328 : This statement is the true fallacy. This is an excellent camera and nothing has changed in that regard, despite the release of newer models. The camera takes the same high quality images it took when it was released. Also, the camera in question is an E-P3. You apparently missed that as this camera has the (mostly useless) touchscreen you mentioned as a feature new to the Pen product line. Touchscreens are for toys like point and shoot cameras and iPhones. I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is: after selling the 17mm f/2.8 for 150 after fees (I typically get 180 or more total, so this is fair), you will have paid 250 for the E-P3 body and many decent lens options like the Panasonic 14-42 exist for ~100 or less (routinely sold at Amazon for as low as 79 new). Show me a better camera AT THIS PRICE POINT (~350). The E-PM2 you mentioned "at the same price" includes either the 14-42 II or 'R' lens, which has a plastic mount and is inferior to the original version in both build and optical quality. I own quite a few cameras, this one included, and am no "cheerleader" for any product. Some people buy cameras for image quality, rather than touchscreens and other useless fads. I sell much of my work, and the E-P3 has paid for itself many times over (and did so in a much shorter time than my better and more expensive 7D's)

Their point is this. The newer model m4/3 sensors are vastly superior to the one in the E-P3 and every camera that came before it. That's clear from every review out there, and its even clearer if you look at the E-M5 v. E-P3 test photo on dpreview. It's no contest. The newer sensor is leagues better than the old one.

Your point is well taken, you'll still get fine quality photos out of an E-P3, same as when it was released. But their point is, time has marched on, competing products have marched on, and money that could be spent on an E-P3 would probably be better served on a PM2 or PL5 instead.

In this case, for most people, their point makes more sense. If I were advising somebody on this camera, I'd tell them to get a PM2/PL5 instead. And I have and shoot regularly with a PL1. I actually thought about this deal, a P3 body has a lot to offer that a PL1 body doesn't. But I'm passing, passing for the simple reason that pictures from a P3 are going to look nearly identical to pictures from a PL1. Only in moving up to a PL5 or PM2 would give me some extra room to work with in marginal lighting conditions.

Not sure where you're going, dissing the mkII kit lens. Optically, it's pretty good. Definitely not inferior to the mkI kit lens, which had that damn wobbling issue which fried pictures at certain shutter speeds. I don't see any point in switching to a Panny kit zoom unless you're going to the 14-45. That's an upgrade. Albeit, an expensive one (comparatively speaking).

Newegg sells the E-PM2 for $600 with kit lens. Where can I find that camera for about the same price ($400)?

I think, right now, the Panny G5 is the best deal in m43 cameras.

Quote from clau : Newegg sells the E-PM2 for $600 with kit lens. Where can I find that camera for about the same price ($400)? I think, right now, the Panny G5 is the best deal in m43 cameras.

What? $600? It was like $300 a few days ago.

https://slickdeals.net/f/5896812-...rom-Newegg

Quote from jasonh328 : This statement is the true fallacy. This is an excellent camera and nothing has changed in that regard, despite the release of newer models. The camera takes the same high quality images it took when it was released.

So does my Kodak Brownie, yet there are better cameras out today. It would be one thing if the E-P3 was $100. It's not. It's at about the same price you can find better cameras for. So why?

Quote from travfar : So does my Kodak Brownie, yet there are better cameras out today. It would be one thing if the E-P3 was $100. It's not. It's at about the same price you can find better cameras for. So why?

Your brownie was never capable of taking a high quality image.

As stated above, you can't find a better camera at this price point ~300-350 after selling the 17mm and buying another lens, Sigma 19 or 30mm for ~99 for example.

Quote from sarlo100 : Your point is well taken, you'll still get fine quality photos out of an E-P3, same as when it was released. But their point is, time has marched on, competing products have marched on, and money that could be spent on an E-P3 would probably be better served on a PM2 or PL5 instead. Not sure where you're going, dissing the mkII kit lens. Optically, it's pretty good. Definitely not inferior to the mkI kit lens, which had that damn wobbling issue which fried pictures at certain shutter speeds. I don't see any point in switching to a Panny kit zoom unless you're going to the 14-45. That's an upgrade. Albeit, an expensive one (comparatively speaking).

The E-Px is a higher end camera in terms of build quality and controls than the more consumer oriented E-PLx and E-PMx. They also tend to have better resale values.

The 14-42 MkI is widely known to be better optically and a used copy sells for more than either of the other versions. Also, the Panasonic 14-42 looks and feels nicer and comes with a lens hood. I find the IQ to be on par with the MkI Oly 14-42