President Hugo Chávez was a Hero

show me a group advocating that that group stays unemployed.

You realize that the standard of living for your average Venezuelan pales in comparison to the poorest working person in the US, right?

You realize what the starvation rate was in Venezuela a decade and a half ago? They were in a bit of a different situation than your country was, with the majority of the population struggling just to stay alive.

Although there are certainly some places owned by the US that are at least as poor as the worse parts of Venezuela. Many Americans are so quick to forget about the colonies...

I guess if that's the sort of thing your into.
I wonder why he doesn't move there?

When Chavez came to power, oil was $9.30. By 2008, it was $126. You would have to be some kind of incredible, history making kleptomaniac to mess that up. And then he threw out all the American oil producers. Get out America! Stealing from us! F^#$ yea!!

So why then did the Chinese oil producers that were brought in operate with a higher margin than the Americans? If the Americans were stealing, then the Chinese were downright thieves of the highest magnitude. Doesn't matter; pissed off America at the cost of his own country.

There's an absolutely Radeck-esque sleight of hand there. Wow! Murder rates went down 60% in 4 years! Fantastic!

Over the course of Chavez's leadership, homicides tripled. So yea. Well done. *slow clap*

Whoops.

It wasn't that he didn't like "us". "Us" don't really give a s%#$. Correa doesn't like us and nobody cares. It was that he disliked us so much that he took money and food out of his own peoples' mouths to do it.

The world market in oil is far too robust for Chavez to have anything more than a passive effect. Venezuela should have been completely transformed in the last decade. It should look like Qatar. It doesn't. It looks like Cuba.

I don't wholly disagree with this, but Chavez great crime wasn't that he screwed with oil or saved people from starving temporarily. He was given the ultimate golden ticket and rather than transform Venezuela into an incredible economic powerhouse, he has maintained their position as just another south american hand to mouth economy. Granted, those hands have food in them but what they should have is a burgeoning middle class and a tide that raises all boats. That they don't is his great failing.

And that is why he is a failure. And that's why even the left in this country sneer at him.

But hey, at least Venezuela has an AK-47 factory now. And see? I didn't even bring up Tupamaros, La Piedrita or the FBLN. Or the Constitutional bulls#$%. Or the incredible corruption. Or the jailing of dissidents. Or the firing of how many public employees for signing the petition? Or the Supreme Court justice he fired from his death bed for disagreeing with him. Or the fact that he built less public housing in his 14 years than any president before him. Or Leopoldo Lopez. Or the 2010 elections. Or the radio/newspaper closings. Or the comically stupid arms purchases.

Like?

A bit south of Florida lies a tropical paradise with an actual poverty rate of around 75%. It's owned by the richest country in the world, but you wouldn't know it by the houses without windows and the feral animals roaming about, as well as the children in the south of the island who don't go to school because there aren't any schools. The island's GDP falls about 4-5% against inflation most years.

Do you have a link to support these claims?

I'm talking about Puerto Rico. Which links would you like? The photographs I took in Naguabo in October? I'll put some up on Photobucket if you'd like.

As for the other information -- which really warrants its own thread, because the poverty in Puerto Rico is appalling -- here's a quick summary.

The reported poverty rate in Puerto Rico hovers in the 40%-50% range, with the latest report at 41.2% (http://gdbpr.com/economy/document...11-Eng.pdf). It's important to note though that the poverty line used in Puerto Rico is roughly half the Federal Poverty Line (http://www.topuertorico.org/economy.shtml), which means that a family of three in Puerto Rico with an income of $12,000 a year would NOT be considered impoverished, though if they were anywhere else in the USA they would be considered deeply impoverished. The actual poverty rate is above 50%, and the minimum wage is also below federal minimum wage, at under $5 per hour (http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm).

The GDP has been declining in Puerto Rico since 2006 (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/p...-data.html). This translates to a per capita GDP decrease from $18,100 in 2008 to $16,300 in 2010. For comparison, Massachusetts has a per capita GDP of $58,108, and Mississippi (the poorest state by far) has a per capita GDP of $32,967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...tes_by_GDP). Venezuela's GDP was $8,000 in 1999, and has increased to $12,700 in 2011 - a 59% increase in 12 years (http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ve&v=67).

The situation in Puerto Rico is one of great poverty, though it has improved since the 1990s. Venezuela was also deeply impoverished in the 1990s and remains so today, but has made tremendous strides forward since President Chavez took office. Was that because of its natural oil reserves? Yes, of course. But it was also because of how its oil reserves were used, and because President Chavez didn't allow foreign oil magnates to rob Venezuela of its resources, and used those resources to improve living conditions for poor and working class citizens of Venezuela.

Archbishop Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara once famously said, "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist." President Hugo Chavez may not have been a saint, but he improved the lives of millions of downtrodden, impoverished people, and helped give them not only the means to survive but hope for a better future.

Thank you for posting that info. Would you then elevate the church to the same revered status you give to Chavez? Churches have also helped millions of people.

The reported poverty rate in Puerto Rico hovers in the 40%-50% range, with the latest report at 41.2% (http://gdbpr.com/economy/document...11-Eng.pdf). It's important to note though that the poverty line used in Puerto Rico is roughly half the Federal Poverty Line (http://www.topuertorico.org/economy.shtml), which means that a family of three in Puerto Rico with an income of $12,000 a year would NOT be considered impoverished, though if they were anywhere else in the USA they would be considered deeply impoverished. The actual poverty rate is above 50%, and the minimum wage is also below federal minimum wage, at under $5 per hour (http://www.dol.gov/whd/minwage/america.htm).

The GDP has been declining in Puerto Rico since 2006 (http://www.tradingeconomics.com/p...-data.html). This translates to a per capita GDP decrease from $18,100 in 2008 to $16,300 in 2010. For comparison, Massachusetts has a per capita GDP of $58,108, and Mississippi (the poorest state by far) has a per capita GDP of $32,967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List...tes_by_GDP). Venezuela's GDP was $8,000 in 1999, and has increased to $12,700 in 2011 - a 59% increase in 12 years (http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=ve&v=67).

You seem to be comparing PR to the US, and Venezuela to PR.

Lets compare PR to Venezuela:

Link [google.com]

PR has had a rough last few years, but let's not pretend they are on the same level as each other. The average PR makes 3x what they make in Venezuela, even though they were dead even in the 1970's.

It's insane to me that you can have as much oil as Venezuela has, and in 30 years, a small island nation trounces you like PR. Heck, look at PR vs. Cuba! [google.com]

Intentional murders are much higher in Venezuela as well. [google.com]

I don't think that direct comparisons between PR and Venezuela are at all reasonable. PR has the United States supporting it. Venezuela is surrounded by neighbors that are at times hostile. Its border with Colombia is where most of the violence takes place. PR isn't a "small island nation," it is a colony of the United States of America - one of the world's economic powerhouses. Examining PR without the backing from the country that owns it is impossible.

And as a side note, while you're more likely to be murdered in Venezuela, you're more likely to die in general in Puerto Rico. [google.com]