1.6 Billion Rounds Of Ammo For Homeland Security

Quote from Dr. J : Typically people don't buy hollow points for target practice because they're more expensive than other bullets - meaning if you're just firing at a target, why buy something that's more expensive?

For many years, firearms training for Law Enforcement officers was conducted with reloaded "target velocity" ammunition often not in the same caliber as the duty weapon, such as remanufactured target load semi wadcutter.38's being used in .357 revolvers. This was much cheaper than purchasing full duty hollow point ammo for target shooting during qualification and training. The ammunition did not have the same velocity, recoil or noise of full duty ammo, therefore in addition to being cheaper, it was much easier to shoot (often resulting in better overall scores).

Greatly due to today's lawsuit preventative CYA general climate in many agencies, the trend has been in many LE agencies to train and qualify with the same ammo that is carried on duty, which is much more expensive than the previously mentioned remanufactured ammo. One of the premises is that if there is a shooting situation, some hotshot lawyer would not be able to make a controversy for the jury due to the officer not being familiar with the ammunition that he carries due to inadequate or incorrect training, therefore he and the dept. are liable, etc. etc.

I cannot help but wonder if that is partially the reason for DHS purchasing this ammo, since they have a large number of personnel that must undergo periodic training and qualification. It is possible (probable?) that they are doing all of their training and qualifications using actual duty ammo, which must be replaced via procurement since it will be expended in use.

Quote from gunnerusa : Is this a one year purchase, or for multi-year use?

crickets

At their stated # of employees, which is 200,000 if each person fired their share that would be 8,000 bullets. That does seem a bit excessive. I could get behind say something like 160M or heck even 320M (or 800-1,600per person) but 1.6B (8,000 per person) does seem like a bit much...

Quote from LivninSC : At their stated # of employees, which is 200,000 if each person fired their share that would be 8,000 bullets. That does seem a bit excessive. I could get behind say something like 160M or heck even 320M (or 800-1,600per person) but 1.6B (8,000 per person) does seem like a bit much...

It's for 1.6 billion rounds total over 5 years. That works out to 1600 rounds per person per year. That works out to two and a half boxes (assuming we're talking pistols) of ammo per person per month. Does it sound reasonable for a shooter to consume two boxes of ammo per month maintaining his weapon proficiency, plus 25 rounds to carry in his duty weapon?

Heck, even Fox News says this is a whole lot of 'nuthin.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2...y-bullets/

Quote from gunnerusa : It's for 5 years. That works out to 1600 rounds per person per year. That works out to two and a half boxes of ammo per person per month. Does it sound reasonable for a shooter to consume two boxes of ammo per month maintaining his weapon proficiency, plus 25 rounds to carry in his duty weapon? Heck, even Fox News says this is a whole lot of 'nuthin. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2...y-bullets/

When you count all the "administrative" staff they have I'd say yep. I'm not buying in to this whole let's dry up the market conspiracy shit but it does seem like a bit much. Why do they need to buy and warehouse it all now? How much is storing it costing? Has the DHS never of heard of JIT inventory?

Quote from gunnerusa : It's for 1.6 billion rounds total over 5 years. That works out to 1600 rounds per person per year. That works out to two and a half boxes (assuming we're talking pistols) of ammo per person per month. Does it sound reasonable for a shooter to consume two boxes of ammo per month maintaining his weapon proficiency, plus 25 rounds to carry in his duty weapon? Heck, even Fox News says this is a whole lot of 'nuthin. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2...y-bullets/

I'll bet you a dollar this will be conveniently ignored.

Quote from gunnerusa : It's for 1.6 billion rounds total over 5 years. That works out to 1600 rounds per person per year. That works out to two and a half boxes (assuming we're talking pistols) of ammo per person per month. Does it sound reasonable for a shooter to consume two boxes of ammo per month maintaining his weapon proficiency, plus 25 rounds to carry in his duty weapon? Heck, even Fox News says this is a whole lot of 'nuthin. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2...y-bullets/

using the 200,000 employee count is misleading, as I doubt every secretary, janitor, accountant, lawyer, mail room clerk, grass mower, HR personnel, etc will be issued a duty gun and ammo to go use and practice with.

Quote from LivninSC : When you count all the "administrative" staff they have I'd say yep. I'm not buying in to this whole let's dry up the market conspiracy shit but it does seem like a bit much. Why do they need to buy and warehouse it all now? How much is storing it costing? Has the DHS never of heard of JIT inventory?

who claimed they're buying and warehousing it all now?

govt often works on an open po, then releases smaller amounts at a time, as needed

Quote from vaultaddict : who claimed they're buying and warehousing it all now? govt often works on an open po, then releases smaller amounts at a time, as needed

No fair using facts and logic to ruin another Radeck conspiracy theory.

Quote from vaultaddict : who claimed they're buying and warehousing it all now? govt often works on an open po, then releases smaller amounts at a time, as needed

wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of a large purchase to get a lower price?

Quote from Radeck : wouldn't that defeat the entire purpose of a large purchase to get a lower price?

Not at all. They still get the discount based on the commitment to purchase.

Quote from barnz008 : They do now and will until that's gone, too. I was at Gander Mntn today and they had NO FMJ pistol ammo in stock other than some random odd calibers like .32 or like 10 mm auto. Local Walmart last week had no pistol ammo at all. Not sure about Cabela's retail, but they have now officially started limiting the amount of ammo per order.... But I'm sure this is just a little hiccup. It will blow over soon....pffft.....

Oh I completely agree - I've been to Cabela's a few times since December and every time the shelves have been bare in pistol ammo except for as you said, odd loads or calibers. ZERO 22 ammo, even JHP and whatnot. Last time I scored some cheaper (plinking) 22 ammo was an SD Cabela's call in (here "SD" means normal pricing, like 4 cpr for FMJ 22).

Quote from gunnerusa : You realize that match grade bullets are hollow-point....right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow-point_bullet

yeah and if you're shooting in matches, buying the cheap shit probably isn't your priority. Here the excuse is that they need so much ammo for practice - so how is buying the more expensive round a good use of taxpayer money? Unless there's a valid justification - as someone else pointed out because they want recoil, etc to be the same, fine.

Quote from LivninSC : At their stated # of employees, which is 200,000 if each person fired their share that would be 8,000 bullets. That does seem a bit excessive. I could get behind say something like 160M or heck even 320M (or 800-1,600per person) but 1.6B (8,000 per person) does seem like a bit much...

All 200,000 have guns? What about Jane who makes my copies and Phil down in accounting?