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HDHomeRun Prime bitrate / PS3 viewing

TheEdge 5,978 1,640 September 20, 2013 at 07:11 PM
We have an HDHomeRun Prime three tuner card wired into our newly acquired WD MyNet AC wireless bridge. From there, it feeds down to our router two flights down. I know, I know...5 GHz doesn't go well through materials. That being said, I've done speed tests on the WAN side and have gotten 57 mbps down, 11 up...more than Comcast has promised us. According to some "estimates", the HD content on the HDHR is about 15 mbps [silicondust.com]. If I try using my PS3 as an HDHRP "extender", I get a smidge of "audio dropouts" and "video freezes" (a fraction of a second). I would say it's about 90% quality (if 100% was a normal HD TV viewing experience).

I know my WAN speed is different (should be LESS than) my LAN speed. As such, any theories on why I'm not getting a flawless experience on the PS3? I know it's hardwired through our bridge (acting like a switch), but on my PC (and my wife's PC), it's smooth as silk.

Other than disconnecting my wife's desktop computer, taking it downstairs and connecting it into the router, is there any way to figure out if the PS3 is the issue?

I've tried disabling QoS. It didn't help. Tried turning it on and maxing it out. It didn't help. I tried moving the router to our middle floor (to cut down on the distance to the router), but then it incurred an extra "hop" (HDHRP --> AC bridge --> AC router --> AC bridge --> PS3). I had very similar results with either scenario.

Call me crazy, but shouldn't an AC router with AC bridges be able to handle this?

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#2
That is a lot of bridging between the devices and I would not be surprised if that is having an effect on your service. Also the HDHR steams with MPG4 which is an odd format for many devices. I would move the PS3 and HDHR on to the same router and see how it goes and slowly add the bridges. Another option could be power line adapters from the HDHR to the router.

I also have one and run it via N to devices and do have much issues other then the occasional studding.
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#3
The problem is that TCP/IP is not, and was never designed to be, a real-time communications medium. When a packet gets dropped, the receiver just informs the sender to send that packet again. You never see the impact of this in a normal download, as the receiver reassembles the packets in the proper order and your file is complete, web page looks fine, etc.

Now let's move the transport path into the unlicensed airwaves... If you run something like Wireshark on a wireless device, you'll find that packets get dropped fairly often, unless you are very close to the access point. No problem if you're reading email. But if you're streaming continuous data, that is being rendered in real time, then those dropped packets appear as blockiness, screen freezing, etc. They are not in the proper place in the data stream when it arrives, so the end device doesn't know what to display.

To make matters worse, most streaming video uses UDP, which doesn't even bother with the handshaking. It assumes that the stream is reaching its destination. Wireless signals are often momentarily interrupted by interference from other devices, someone walking through the signal path, sunspots, etc. This makes it a less than perfect medium for streaming video. Frown You can read more about UDP here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User...m_Protocol
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#4
Quote from mrbobhcrhs View Post :
That is a lot of bridging between the devices and I would not be surprised if that is having an effect on your service. Also the HDHR steams with MPG4 which is an odd format for many devices. I would move the PS3 and HDHR on to the same router and see how it goes and slowly add the bridges. Another option could be power line adapters from the HDHR to the router.

I also have one and run it via N to devices and do have much issues other then the occasional studding.
Thanks for the info. Repped. Just for clarification -- currently, it is just HDHR that plugs into a bridge and shoots to the router. The PS3 is plugged into that.

Before I put my head on the pillow last night, I thought about moving the PS3 and putting it on the same bridge as the HDHR. I actually have one boxed up for sale. So I wouldn't even have to disconnect anything...just set it up. Plus, my wife has a monitor with an HDMI input in our office, so I can just monitor it that way.
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#5
Quote from HarryH3 View Post :
The problem is that TCP/IP is not, and was never designed to be, a real-time communications medium. When a packet gets dropped, the receiver just informs the sender to send that packet again. You never see the impact of this in a normal download, as the receiver reassembles the packets in the proper order and your file is complete, web page looks fine, etc.

Now let's move the transport path into the unlicensed airwaves... If you run something like Wireshark on a wireless device, you'll find that packets get dropped fairly often, unless you are very close to the access point. No problem if you're reading email. But if you're streaming continuous data, that is being rendered in real time, then those dropped packets appear as blockiness, screen freezing, etc. They are not in the proper place in the data stream when it arrives, so the end device doesn't know what to display.

To make matters worse, most streaming video uses UDP, which doesn't even bother with the handshaking. It assumes that the stream is reaching its destination. Wireless signals are often momentarily interrupted by interference from other devices, someone walking through the signal path, sunspots, etc. This makes it a less than perfect medium for streaming video. Frown You can read more about UDP here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User...m_Protocol
Thanks, Harry. Repped you as well.
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#6
Quote from mrbobhcrhs View Post :
I would move the PS3 and HDHR on to the same router and see how it goes and slowly add the bridges. Another option could be power line adapters from the HDHR to the router.

I also have one and run it via N to devices and do have much issues other then the occasional studding.
I just hooked the PS3 up to the same bridge (as a switch) that the HDHR is on. I still got some brief pauses and audio dropouts, but instead of it being -- on average -- once every 10 or so seconds, it would happen three times in a minute and then be flawless for three or four minutes. I probably watched for about 10 to 15. So although my AC connection isn't to blame for everything, even a hardwired connection isn't perfect when using the PS3 as an extender. As far as adding another bridge to the chain -- the way I have it setup only involves one wireless hop. Granted, it's a two floor wireless hop, but...even when I had it as a one floor/two device wireless hop (router on the middle floor), I had similar issues.

I created a custom QoS rule based on the IP address I assigned to the HDHR and set it for top priority. It didn't help (I've heard that the QoS function on WD routers isn't that great anyway).
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