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Dual Fuel 10k generators

robstebb 139 37 November 22, 2015 at 07:46 PM More eBay Deals
I'm still pretty new to slick deals and I'm not sure if I'm posting this right or in the right area but I'm in need of a generator my power has been going out a lot lately I'm in Michigan and it's getting a little cold out for this Smilie so I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions I really want a dual fuel and thinking 10k watt I found this on ebay http://m.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-100...nav=SEARCH I have seen posts before for these just not sure on quality or if it's a good price seems like $1000 for a 10k generator isn't bad but not sure... any input is appreciated.. thanks Smilie

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#2
That's a lot of power - your probably going to want to feed it into your electrical box, but that needs a proper install (to prevent power going back through the wires and you attempting to power up your entire neighborhood via wires that are too small for it & possibly also shocking whoever is attempting to repair the broken lines) - I would highly suggest working out those details before getting anything than a "basic" unit where you can just draw a long extension cable from outside (since you don't want this thing running & making smoke inside, not even in the garage)

also figure out what you actually need to power rather than "everything" -i.e. you probably want the central heating fan, refrigerators, etc. but should probably skip the range, microwave, space heaters, etc. - might also want to avoid any sensitive electronics such as computers & TV's just in case the power isn't as "clean" as it normally would be (unless you have an online UPS, in which case it's fine)
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#3
Quote from robstebb View Post :
I'm still pretty new to slick deals and I'm not sure if I'm posting this right or in the right area but I'm in need of a generator my power has been going out a lot lately I'm in Michigan and it's getting a little cold out for this Smilie so I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions I really want a dual fuel and thinking 10k watt I found this on ebay http://m.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-100...nav=SEARCH I have seen posts before for these just not sure on quality or if it's a good price seems like $1000 for a 10k generator isn't bad but not sure... any input is appreciated.. thanks Smilie
I don't think that's the best choice, better to go with a name brand imho.

You have to think about what you plan to power off the generator. To do it right, even a gas powered portable generator should be hooked to a power inlet and a transfer switch permits/electrician likely required. A standby generator and automatic transfer switch is much more convenient, it kicks in on it's own whenever the power goes out and hooks up to your natural gas line or a propane tank. This type of generator also costs more. You mostly need to power your furnace/boiler, refrigerator, and a few lights and outlets. In a rural area you need to power your well too.

It isn't available yet, but things like Tesla's Power Wall could be an interesting option in the future especially paired with some solar panels. This would require an inverter and transfer switch as well.

There are a lot of people who do some very dangerous things with portable generators that should be avoided at all costs. carbon monoxide hazards, electrical hazards, and fire hazards abound.

http://www.homedepot.com/c/generators_HT_BG_TH
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Last edited by jkee November 22, 2015 at 09:43 PM
#4
Quote from robstebb View Post :
I'm still pretty new to slick deals and I'm not sure if I'm posting this right or in the right area but I'm in need of a generator my power has been going out a lot lately I'm in Michigan and it's getting a little cold out for this Smilie so I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions I really want a dual fuel and thinking 10k watt I found this on ebay http://m.ebay.com/itm/DuroMax-100...nav=SEARCH I have seen posts before for these just not sure on quality or if it's a good price seems like $1000 for a 10k generator isn't bad but not sure... any input is appreciated.. thanks Smilie
Definitely what everyone else says.

So two main questions...

What do you need to power?
Heating - The type of heating your house has will be a major factor for this purchase. If you have electric heat and it's a big enough house, you might need even more power. If it's gas or propane power furnace / heat, then you'll be in better shape as you will only need to power the blower for the most part. Most electric furnaces for decent size homes can well exceed 10,000W.

Some other common things you should power should be refrigerator, water system, and a small outlet with a power strip for electronics such as routers / wifi, laptops, tablets, phones, rechargeable batteries, etc. You can always use battery-powered lighting. I wouldn't worry about lighting too much as long as you've stocked up on batteries, candles and flashlights.

About the water system, are you on well water? If so, you will definitely need to power the water pump. If you're on city water, excuse my ignorance because I've never been on city water - do you have to pump it, or is it pressurized in the pipe for you (meaning you do not need a water pump)? If you do not need a pump, that's a plus.

How do you want to power it?
Are you integrating it to your house? That is probably a good option but it would require spending some money on an electrician to retrofit your house for this.

Last thing, remember, this generator is not natively dual fuel - you'll have to buy (and install) the kit if you do not buy a dual fuel system outright.
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#5
Quote from ChaosGuru View Post :
Definitely what everyone else says.

So two main questions...

What do you need to power?
Heating - The type of heating your house has will be a major factor for this purchase. If you have electric heat and it's a big enough house, you might need even more power. If it's gas or propane power furnace / heat, then you'll be in better shape as you will only need to power the blower for the most part. Most electric furnaces for decent size homes can well exceed 10,000W.

Some other common things you should power should be refrigerator, water system, and a small outlet with a power strip for electronics such as routers / wifi, laptops, tablets, phones, rechargeable batteries, etc. You can always use battery-powered lighting. I wouldn't worry about lighting too much as long as you've stocked up on batteries, candles and flashlights.

About the water system, are you on well water? If so, you will definitely need to power the water pump. If you're on city water, excuse my ignorance because I've never been on city water - do you have to pump it, or is it pressurized in the pipe for you (meaning you do not need a water pump)? If you do not need a pump, that's a plus.

How do you want to power it?
Are you integrating it to your house? That is probably a good option but it would require spending some money on an electrician to retrofit your house for this.

Last thing, remember, this generator is not natively dual fuel - you'll have to buy (and install) the kit if you do not buy a dual fuel system outright.
2600+ Sq ft house.. nat. gas furnace.. city h2o no pump needed.. so I want to run fridges 2 deep freezers furnace and some lights of course.. I was thinking of back feeding through a 240v outlet in my garage and turning off the main @ the panel in the house ? not a good idea? sorry I posted the wrong link http://m.ebay.com/itm/POWERLAND-PD2G10000E-10KW-PORTABLE-HYBRID-DUAL-FUEL-GASOLINE-PROPANE-GENERATOR-/111784065075?nav=SEARCH
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Last edited by robstebb November 22, 2015 at 09:05 PM
#6
Quote from robstebb View Post :
2600+ Sq ft house.. nat. gas furnace.. city h2o no pump needed.. so I want to run fridges 2 deep freezers furnace and some lights of course.. I was thinking of back feeding through a 240v outlet in my garage and turning off the main @ the panel in the house ? not a good idea? sorry I posted the wrong link http://m.ebay.com/itm/POWERLAND-P...nav=SEARCH
Including 2 freezers might get it too close. Rule of thumb is that refrigerators and freezers need spike wattage from 1000-3000 a piece, but about 300-1200 for running wattage a piece. So a lot depends on how much power your furnace draws. Is there any way you can find this information out? Luckily, it's natural gas, so you're getting a bit lucky with that, but 2600sqft is a hefty amount for any blower. Do you happen to know how many btu's is your furnace? If it's one of the newer 4-speed fancy blowers, you'll get pretty lucky but we're still talking possibilities of up to 3000 watts for just the blower.

If you use LED lighting, you might get a few hundred watts (when compared to old incandecent bulbs).

Even still, you don't want to run it so close to 100%. It might be doable depending on the specs of your stuff and I can't really tell you, you have to tell me. Do you happen to know how much electricity some of these appliances draw?

As far as running it through a 240v outlet, I can't really say unfortunately. I've never ran one through my house so I have no real experience with this. I'm sure someone else can tell you whether or not that's doable for you though. Sorry I can't help you with that one!
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Quote from robstebb View Post :
so I want to run fridges 2 deep freezers furnace and some lights of course.. I was thinking of back feeding through a 240v outlet in my garage and turning off the main @ the panel in the house ? not a good idea?
NO, BACK FEEDING WITHOUT A TRANSFER SWITCH IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

Since you're on natural gas, while more expensive, an lng standby generator would be really nice. You'd never have to worry about fuel for the generator.
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#8
I believe the transfer switch must be installed inside or adjacent to the main electrical panel.

Note: If the generator is started while the power company is also providing electricity, your generator will be out of phase and something has got to give (burn up) it will likely be your generator but it could also affect the power company's transformer nearest your home. I think you would want to avoid breaking something that belongs to the power company.

I have this exact situation with a 850KW generator whole house system. Belatedly during testing I found that my neighbors don't like having to listen to my generator. I was forced to build an enclosure and I had to replace the original muffler. Then I discovered that the enclosure acted like an oven that tried to cook my generator. I installed an electric fan + ducting strait up 10 feet, this finally gave me a system that actually worked. I have never had to use it because of all the solar being installed around here.
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Quote from robstebb View Post :
2600+ Sq ft house.. nat. gas furnace.. city h2o no pump needed.. so I want to run fridges 2 deep freezers furnace and some lights of course.. I was thinking of back feeding through a 240v outlet in my garage and turning off the main @ the panel in the house ? not a good idea? sorry I posted the wrong link http://m.ebay.com/itm/POWERLAND-P...nav=SEARCH
back-feeding is generally a no-no, for example in your case, you want to send all the power over a small wire - let's assume 12 gauge rated at 20 amps (that's generous, lots of home wiring is only 14 gauge rated for 15 amps) - at 240v, that's only 4800 watts of rated power when the machine will generate up to 10000 watts - what happens if you draw more? wire will heat up & possibly start a fire somewhere in-wall (especially if it's kinked or damaged anywhere)

the other issue with powering stuff off of only a 240v connection is that unless it's well-balanced (i.e. same amount of power drawn on both 120v branches), the voltage won't be well-regulated and fluctuate wildly - which is bad, and your load of fridges/freezers which tend to have spiky loads are particularly bad - normally if the load increases, the generator just works harder to supply more - but if it does that, then the voltage on the non-loaded side will be raised significantly higher (i.e. your 240v won't be divided into 120 and 120, but say 30 and 210)
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#10
Well the unit itself looks sketchy. A 10kW unit for $1000? Yeah sounds too good to be true unfortunately.

Regarding the whole transfer switch thing..... I'll post my 2 cents even though I'll be flamed..... Backfeeding is fine if you know what you are doing. It's not rocket science, just be sure to turn your main breaker off and you will be fine. IMHO it really depends on how often/much you anticipate using it - if power outages are often and long, I'd definitely look to spend more $$ to get the transfer switch and such. Those things aren't cheap, and including pro install it'd probably cost more $$ than the generator itself.
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#11
Quote from Dr. J View Post :
Well the unit itself looks sketchy. A 10kW unit for $1000? Yeah sounds too good to be true unfortunately.

Regarding the whole transfer switch thing..... I'll post my 2 cents even though I'll be flamed..... Backfeeding is fine if you know what you are doing. It's not rocket science, just be sure to turn your main breaker off and you will be fine. IMHO it really depends on how often/much you anticipate using it - if power outages are often and long, I'd definitely look to spend more $$ to get the transfer switch and such. Those things aren't cheap, and including pro install it'd probably cost more $$ than the generator itself.
I agree the 8kw (continuous) generator on ebay the OP linked to seems sketchy.

On back feeding, plenty of people do it without electrocuting themselves or burning their house down, but that doesn't mean I'd recommend it. Transfer switches start around $300. Depending on particulars of the house / wiring it could be pretty easy to install one. If something were to go wrong, and you're back feeding you could find your insurance company won't pay...

A rats nest of extension cords going to various things around the house creates plenty of problems too.

OP, If you don't use the 240v outlet in the garage, it might be possible to convert it to a 30A generator power inlet to be used with a transfer switch near the main panel, simplifying installation.
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Last edited by jkee November 23, 2015 at 08:34 PM
#12
Quote from DakineAthon View Post :
I believe the transfer switch must be installed inside or adjacent to the main electrical panel.
It doesn't have to be, but it's certainly the easiest and most practical.
Quote :
I have never had to use it because of all the solar being installed around here.
Solar isn't allowed to feed the grid during a power outage.
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#13
Quote from jkee View Post :
I agree the 8kw (continuous) generator on ebay the OP linked to seems sketchy.

On back feeding, plenty of people do it without electrocuting themselves or burning their house down, but that doesn't mean I'd recommend it. Transfer switches start around $300. Depending on particulars of the house / wiring it could be pretty easy to install one. If something were to go wrong, and you're back feeding you could find your insurance company won't pay...

A rats nest of extension cords going to various things around the house creates plenty of problems too.

OP, If you don't use the 240v outlet in the garage, it might be possible to convert it to a 30A generator power inlet to be used with a transfer switch near the main panel, simplifying installation.
I've had to use our generator twice for a total of about 12 days. I backfed 240 through a dryer plug installed in the garage for this purpose. Always make sure the mains is off, and I test for mains power using a multimeter. I don't turn any breakers off except perhaps the AC; you just need to be aware that you can't turn everything in the house on at once.
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