Forum Thread

LED TV Refresh Rates -- Clear Motion Rate vs Motion Rate vs Effective Refresh Rates

mbaqai 9 81 December 15, 2015 at 09:21 PM
Hi Everyone,

I had a quick question regarding the teriminology that is used... I recently purchased a Samsung UN65J6200 (2015 model and successor to the UN65H6203) LED TV which advertises a 120z "Motion Rate".

My buddy has a Samsung UN65H6203 (the 2014 model and predecessor to UN65J6200), which advertised a 240hz Clear Motion Rate..

Walmart and all other sites identify the UN65H6203 LED model as a 240hz Clear Motion rate and a 120 hz effective rate.

Samsung switched from using the term "Clear Motion Rate" to "Motion Rate" and now shows that this TV is only 60 hz on their website.

Here are my questions:
1. Is the UN65J6200 model actually worse than it's predecessor in terms of refresh rates?
2. Did Samsung purposely change the refresh rate on their website of the previous model to 60 hz to show that they improved the TV when in fact they are cutting costs by downgrading to a 120hz Motion rate (60 hz effective) for the new one?

Any thoughts?

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#2
It's all marketing mumbo-jumbo. The effective rate is the real refresh. The clear motion rate number is what they came up with to inflate their numbers. All the companies do it and call it something different. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Most consumers don't even know what to look for to determine if a TV has a good refresh rate. If you don't know what ghosting, artifacts, or even what 720,1080, or 4k represent then you shouldn't worry about it.
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#3
I can't find if motion rate is actually the real refresh rate. One site I read claims that Samsung calls the native refresh rate motion rate now. If that's the case then 120 motion rate is standard.

Everything about TVs is a lie. 65 inches is not 65 inches. If you look closely you will see its 65" class. Which is 64.5 rounded up. They call TVs led now, even though they are still lcds. LED sounds a lot better though. And even though 1080 resolution is the same ad 2 megapixels the industry uses 1080 because why would anyone spend so much on a TV when their phone camera has higher resolution. 4k is 8 megapixels but again they say 4k because it sounds better than 8mp
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#4
Quote from Novakingwai View Post :
It's all marketing mumbo-jumbo. The effective rate is the real refresh. The clear motion rate number is what they came up with to inflate their numbers. All the companies do it and call it something different. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Most consumers don't even know what to look for to determine if a TV has a good refresh rate. If you don't know what ghosting, artifacts, or even what 720,1080, or 4k represent then you shouldn't worry about it.

So I am quite familiar with the different resolutions and refresh rates; however, I notice that the Clear Motion Rate for the UN65H6203 on all sites is 240hz and Effective is identified as 120 hz.

In 2015, Samsung switched to the term "Motion Rate" as opposed to their traditional "Clear Motion Rate", which says that the UN65H6203 has a "Motion Rate" of 60 hz on their website. So is this essentially false advertising?
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#5
http://www.samsung.com/us/support...H6203AFXZA

If you expand the "Specification" section, you will notice the reference to the 60 hz
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#6
Quote from mbaqai View Post :
http://www.samsung.com/us/support...H6203AFXZA

If you expand the "Specification" section, you will notice the reference to the 60 hz
Where do you see that? The only 60Hz I see is in reference to the power supply (US power is 60Hz, and this is independent of the TV refresh rate).

From what I've found online (http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/fa...-trumotion), for Samsung 1080p TVs like this one, Motion 120 is the same as 120Hz. It's only on 4K TVs where they try to pull the fake refresh rate nonsense.

FWIW, I've always hated those schemes to increase refresh rate and I turn them off on my TVs. In terms of the actual base signal, movies are 24Hz, TV is 30/60Hz. Everything above that is just your TV trying to fake it. The one advantage of 120Hz is that it's the lowest common refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 (and can play movies without judder).
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#7
You can pretty much break it down to 60Hz refresh rate and everything else that tries to be faster.

Sometimes you could see a slight difference but it was just a reduction in ghosting. I think even the 60Hz TV's have improved enough very few people would notice the difference.
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Quote from quotidian View Post :
Where do you see that? The only 60Hz I see is in reference to the power supply (US power is 60Hz, and this is independent of the TV refresh rate).

From what I've found online (http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/fa...-trumotion), for Samsung 1080p TVs like this one, Motion 120 is the same as 120Hz. It's only on 4K TVs where they try to pull the fake refresh rate nonsense.

FWIW, I've always hated those schemes to increase refresh rate and I turn them off on my TVs. In terms of the actual base signal, movies are 24Hz, TV is 30/60Hz. Everything above that is just your TV trying to fake it. The one advantage of 120Hz is that it's the lowest common refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 (and can play movies without judder).
But those things were created for crt TVs and movie projectors, things without refresh problems. The technology of an lcd TV makes refresh a problem because the liquid crystals have to change colors but they physically can't do it as fast as gas which powers plasma or crt, which gives them blur
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#9
Quote from quotidian View Post :
Where do you see that? The only 60Hz I see is in reference to the power supply (US power is 60Hz, and this is independent of the TV refresh rate).

From what I've found online (http://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/fa...-trumotion), for Samsung 1080p TVs like this one, Motion 120 is the same as 120Hz. It's only on 4K TVs where they try to pull the fake refresh rate nonsense.

FWIW, I've always hated those schemes to increase refresh rate and I turn them off on my TVs. In terms of the actual base signal, movies are 24Hz, TV is 30/60Hz. Everything above that is just your TV trying to fake it. The one advantage of 120Hz is that it's the lowest common refresh rate that is a multiple of 24 (and can play movies without judder).

If you expand the 'specification' section, and look next to "Motion Rate". Then it also identifies that Samsung has switched to identifying TV's with "Motion Rate" as opposed to "Clear Motion Rate".
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#10
Quote from Novakingwai View Post :
It's all marketing mumbo-jumbo. The effective rate is the real refresh. The clear motion rate number is what they came up with to inflate their numbers. All the companies do it and call it something different. I wouldn't worry about it too much. Most consumers don't even know what to look for to determine if a TV has a good refresh rate. If you don't know what ghosting, artifacts, or even what 720,1080, or 4k represent then you shouldn't worry about it.
Just to clarify this. The effective rate is not the real refresh. The effective rate is the fake rate that they are marketing. If any fancy term is listed for the refresh rate then you have a fake rate (like TruMotion, Clear Motion, etc).The native refresh rate is the same as the real refresh rate.

I do agree that if you can't spot soap opera effect and the other anomalies, you probably are best kept to a budget consumer line such as the entry level Vizio sets (E and D series). 60Hz would be no big deal to this camp. Some 60Hz TV's really do a halfway decent job at hiding the blur and reducing bad effects these days. I still prefer native motion over a computerized model and fancy flashing lights.

There has been endless discussion over whether or not this is false advertising and it really comes down to consumer education and the fact that the industry knows a bunch of people have no idea about this stuff and they will never understand but bigger numbers mean better, right? As long as they don't advertise a native refresh rate that is not true, they can pretty much call it whatever they want. I call it poop chute motion (PCM 240).
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