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LordOfChaos 6,571 287 May 2, 2016 at 09:19 AM in Question
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Will they hack the new (good) consoles (read - not WiiU) to run "homebrew"?

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#2
Likely never. 360 was rather well hacked but it was a huge pain to do so. Beyond simply flashing drives to play backups there was the whole JTAG dashboard thing that people were using to play off USB drives and run some additional software.

Still not a true homebrew though.

PS3 had a couple of attempts but were quickly patched. This also resulted in the loss of functionality which irked me a bit.

Wii was a different animal since it didn't have so much reliance on the network to stay up to date. Anytime an exploit comes to light, it can simply be patched. The Wii and WiiU can behave as offline consoles which makes things much simpler.

You would be better off hoping for emulation of these consoles on PC.
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#3
I thought CFW on PS3 had a lot going for it? Haven't looked into it much, since my experience with stuff like that was that I just ended up with even more games I didn't play.
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#4
Quote from Frogstar View Post :
I thought CFW on PS3 had a lot going for it? Haven't looked into it much, since my experience with stuff like that was that I just ended up with even more games I didn't play.
I haven't looked at it in a while but if I remember correctly it was more just a particular firmware version would let you dump a game to local and play it from there. They would figure out really screwy ways to still let you have network access with it.

If they have done more I am unaware of it. When I think homebrew I think the stuff that was done for the Wii.

Actual dvd/cd player
MAME, NES, SNES etc emulators
Entire storefront for massive amounts of applications.

Backup games is really just a hack on any system that is not worth the effort.
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Last edited by Pedantyc May 2, 2016 at 02:15 PM
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#5
Quote from Frogstar View Post :
I thought CFW on PS3 had a lot going for it? Haven't looked into it much, since my experience with stuff like that was that I just ended up with even more games I didn't play.
Iagree Same experience here. I barely have enough time now for the games I do buy. That and the fact that it essentially excluded mp games was enough to push me away from looking into it for a couple gens now.
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#6
Quote from godfather927 View Post :
Iagree Same experience here. I barely have enough time now for the games I do buy. That and the fact that it essentially excluded mp games was enough to push me away from looking into it for a couple gens now.
Apparently the script kiddies on GTA Online on the PS3 have no problems using their mods on that game without worrying. Just the other night I got my console frozen by some lil bastard who teleported a hot pink taxi on top of me which caused the game to freeze up solidly.

Thankfully I was still able to eject the disc, which caused the console to reset, but it was still a pain in the ass.

As for the OP's question, the PS4 HAS been hacked to run Linux. Here's an article from January of this year:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles...linux-demo
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#7
Quote from CheapestGamer View Post :
Apparently the script kiddies on GTA Online on the PS3 have no problems using their mods on that game without worrying. Just the other night I got my console frozen by some lil bastard who teleported a hot pink taxi on top of me which caused the game to freeze up solidly.

Thankfully I was still able to eject the disc, which caused the console to reset, but it was still a pain in the ass.

As for the OP's question, the PS4 HAS been hacked to run Linux. Here's an article from January of this year:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles...linux-demo


should "just work" once the driver issues are sorted out

Yeah, it is really just that easy. Linux on the PS3 was simple enough if you were willing to be locked out of the BD player and the GPU cores. Even if they get it on the PS4 writing drivers when you don't exactly have the specs on the hardware is a nightmarish task. This is kind of why it takes a year for Linux to catch up to some hardware releases when the manufacturer doesn't play nice.
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Last edited by Pedantyc May 2, 2016 at 05:11 PM
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#8
If by "homebrew" you mean youtube apps or emulators, probably never. They were only really popular before because apps weren't on systems, but now you can even get Plex on them. As for emulators, well they're every where now.

If by "homebrew" you mean playing backed up games, probably never for that either. They are getting harder and harder to crack. PS4 is only cracked if you have a 2 year old firmware.
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#9
I don't think people will be hacking the new consoles. The risk versus reward is not that good.
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#10
i don't think you appreciate why people hack. lots do it for sport.
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so i spent time making a signature. only to realize that you couldn't put an image in the signature. please enjoy the link to my signature, assuming it works.

http://imgur.com/FtBghZ2
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#11
Quote from dayv View Post :
i don't think you appreciate why people hack. lots do it for sport.
Iagree
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Quote from dayv View Post :
i don't think you appreciate why people hack. lots do it for sport.
This was exactly it for me. I followed the 360 hacking just because it was interesting. I like ripping apart hardware and doing odd things like that. The ability to play games was pretty much secondary since I never took the time to play anything.

The only one I got use out of was hacking the Wii since it turned it into a rather awesome all in one entertainment box afterwards.
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#13
Quote from Pedantyc View Post :
This was exactly it for me. I followed the 360 hacking just because it was interesting. I like ripping apart hardware and doing odd things like that. The ability to play games was pretty much secondary since I never took the time to play anything.

The only one I got use out of was hacking the Wii since it turned it into a rather awesome all in one entertainment box afterwards.
there was a cool lecture from one of the hacking conventions i watched recently. this guy talks about USB hacking. (i know nothing about USB or drivers but it was understandable) basically the exploit was you can reprogram a thumb drive to tell the computer this isn't USB media but a mouse or keyboard or some joystick from the late 90s. the computer will read the device ID and various other tags to determine what drive the computer should install. the stuff you used to have to manually do before plug and play existed.

the huge concern was the driver librariess. Linux builds are mostly secure but the drivers aren't vetted. since the builds ship with thousands of drivers and no one actually reviews them. and some are just archaic and untouched. you can load an old driver and use a simple overflow exploit or something to get in. so basically you could just comb through old default drivers and look for ones that are exploitable. so his recommendation was to turn off the auto install drivers/devices.

so then he goes on to talk about how you could do a similar attack with a hard drive shipped from a manufacturer. low level programs in the device firmware that could be malicious. you could create one that would detect what the user's intent was and how you could lock a section of sectors. so that it was invisible and if you tried access it, the device would pretend to read it return whatever you wanted.

it was pretty cool. he talked about how since you could detect what OS or even version was accessing the drive you could add a layer of security for yourself. to protect yourself from a search warrant, you reprogram the firmware to defend itself. he talked about the standard protocol for how forensics access the drive and do a 1:1 copy. so you could wipe a drive if it was being examined forensically since they have a very predictable read and access pattern. not to mention they'd be accessing it from a different machine and possibly OS (which you'd have set off a flag). since this stuff is so low level, you wouldn't know it was happening. you'd basically have to access the firmware without booting the device. like rip the rom chip off and read it.

wish i remembered the title of the vid. but it gave you the impression that there is very little you could do besides have blind faith that a device hasn't been tampered with before getting to you and that your drivers are secure and vetted.
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#14
Quote from dayv View Post :
there was a cool lecture from one of the hacking conventions i watched recently. this guy talks about USB hacking. (i know nothing about USB or drivers but it was understandable) basically the exploit was you can reprogram a thumb drive to tell the computer this isn't USB media but a mouse or keyboard or some joystick from the late 90s. the computer will read the device ID and various other tags to determine what drive the computer should install. the stuff you used to have to manually do before plug and play existed.

the huge concern was the driver librariess. Linux builds are mostly secure but the drivers aren't vetted. since the builds ship with thousands of drivers and no one actually reviews them. and some are just archaic and untouched. you can load an old driver and use a simple overflow exploit or something to get in. so basically you could just comb through old default drivers and look for ones that are exploitable. so his recommendation was to turn off the auto install drivers/devices.

so then he goes on to talk about how you could do a similar attack with a hard drive shipped from a manufacturer. low level programs in the device firmware that could be malicious. you could create one that would detect what the user's intent was and how you could lock a section of sectors. so that it was invisible and if you tried access it, the device would pretend to read it return whatever you wanted.

it was pretty cool. he talked about how since you could detect what OS or even version was accessing the drive you could add a layer of security for yourself. to protect yourself from a search warrant, you reprogram the firmware to defend itself. he talked about the standard protocol for how forensics access the drive and do a 1:1 copy. so you could wipe a drive if it was being examined forensically since they have a very predictable read and access pattern. not to mention they'd be accessing it from a different machine and possibly OS (which you'd have set off a flag). since this stuff is so low level, you wouldn't know it was happening. you'd basically have to access the firmware without booting the device. like rip the rom chip off and read it.

wish i remembered the title of the vid. but it gave you the impression that there is very little you could do besides have blind faith that a device hasn't been tampered with before getting to you and that your drivers are secure and vetted.
This is very interesting stuff that I follow as a hobby. One of the saddest and strangest issues that American companies have is the issue of counterfeit parts. Most of the larger companies have to outsource things, and by the time they get a low level part is has been picked up by some 12 level deep source that pulled it from somewhere that makes these exploits you mention.

One nasty distributer just loads this stuff onto a few hundred thousand devices and lets them out into the world and waits for them to report back. Some end up in home machines which are not all that interesting. Some get into private sector, military or government contractors which is a different story.

USB drives vendors hand out at conferences are some of the worst. Also read a story about how the simplest method used to infiltrate a system was to just drop a USB drive in the companies parking lot. Employee would find it and just plug it in to see what was on it.
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#15
Quote from dayv View Post :
there was a cool lecture from one of the hacking conventions i watched recently. this guy talks about USB hacking. (i know nothing about USB or drivers but it was understandable) basically the exploit was you can reprogram a thumb drive to tell the computer this isn't USB media but a mouse or keyboard or some joystick from the late 90s. the computer will read the device ID and various other tags to determine what drive the computer should install. the stuff you used to have to manually do before plug and play existed.

the huge concern was the driver librariess. Linux builds are mostly secure but the drivers aren't vetted. since the builds ship with thousands of drivers and no one actually reviews them. and some are just archaic and untouched. you can load an old driver and use a simple overflow exploit or something to get in. so basically you could just comb through old default drivers and look for ones that are exploitable. so his recommendation was to turn off the auto install drivers/devices.

so then he goes on to talk about how you could do a similar attack with a hard drive shipped from a manufacturer. low level programs in the device firmware that could be malicious. you could create one that would detect what the user's intent was and how you could lock a section of sectors. so that it was invisible and if you tried access it, the device would pretend to read it return whatever you wanted.

it was pretty cool. he talked about how since you could detect what OS or even version was accessing the drive you could add a layer of security for yourself. to protect yourself from a search warrant, you reprogram the firmware to defend itself. he talked about the standard protocol for how forensics access the drive and do a 1:1 copy. so you could wipe a drive if it was being examined forensically since they have a very predictable read and access pattern. not to mention they'd be accessing it from a different machine and possibly OS (which you'd have set off a flag). since this stuff is so low level, you wouldn't know it was happening. you'd basically have to access the firmware without booting the device. like rip the rom chip off and read it.

wish i remembered the title of the vid. but it gave you the impression that there is very little you could do besides have blind faith that a device hasn't been tampered with before getting to you and that your drivers are secure and vetted.
Class code, but yeah the premise is that the OS has a library of generic drivers for each class to allow basic functionality in absence of a fully featured driver from the device manufacturer.
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