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4TB Seagate Surveillance Hard Drive Boxed STBD4000101 $98@frys (starts 7/25) McAfee Total Protection Unlimited Dev/ Yr FAR; Intel Pentium G3470 CPU $33

sr71 25,015 34,115 July 24, 2016 at 01:04 PM in Computers (4) More Frys Deals
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Last Edited by sr71 July 25, 2016 at 05:11 AM
http://www.frys.com/product/8535219?


McAfee Total Protection 2016
[frys.com] free after $50 Rebate

Intel Pentium G3470 [frys.com] LGA1150 Retail CPU $33
(listed as in-store)

480GB Patriot Blast SSD [frys.com] $89AR

Patriot 8GB DDR3L 1600 [frys.com] Laptop RAM $25.99

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#2
Why the TD?
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Last edited by vMAC July 24, 2016 at 02:32 PM
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#3
Quote from vMAC View Post :
Why the TD .
Just guessing but Seagate has a pretty terrible reputation for data integrity for the past few years. I know I wouldn't trust data to them any more, even for a security system.

That, and McAfee is a terrible AV program. Even free is too expensive.

There...my guesses.
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#4
Good to know so definitely don't get this for my NAS?
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#5
Quote from vMAC View Post :
Good to know so definitely don't get this for my NAS?
Disagree. I'm considering this, but can wait for BF prices for 4TBs.

Anyone who discounts an entire major brand completely is a fanboy for the opposition in my book. Seagate had some problems with their 3TBs but that doesn't necessarily transfer to the 4TBs. I say one should judge drive-by-drive, and value price vs. potential reliability, mostly obtainable by ratings. However, I can't quickly find any reviews at all on this drive (which, by itself, would make me pause on any product).

I've owned some Seagates and some have failed. I've owned some WDs, and some have failed. It wasn't all that many years ago that WD was putting out crap or overly proprietary products and people didn't like them. If there are only a few major brands, and you say "I'll never buy that brand again" every time you have a bad experience, it's not long before you have no real choices left. It's just not practical.

Point being, all drives fail and you never know when it will happen. Just setup your system for redundancy and perform backups; never "trust" any one drive.
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#6
Surveillance drives aren't reliable for data unless in an ecc raid array. Dropping a write to a bad sector is OK when it's 640 surveillance cam.

So bottom of the barrel high failure Seagate. Just say no.
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#7
Quote from vMAC View Post :
Good to know so definitely don't get this for my NAS?
usual Seagate trolls still drinking the koolaid from the discredited Backblaze blog, these
spec well [seagate.com] and the ST4000VXxxx bare drives inside have great reviews [amazon.com] (even on Newegg).

now OOS for ship but they retail for 120-140 (in OEM) - so folks missed out
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Last edited by sr71 July 25, 2016 at 05:29 AM
#8
Quote from sr71 View Post :
usual Seagate trolls still drinking the koolaid from the discredited Backblaze blog, these
spec well [seagate.com] and the ST4000VXxxx bare drives inside have great reviews [amazon.com] (even on Newegg).

now OOS for ship but they retail for 120-140 (in OEM) - so folks missed out
You're probably right, and good to know about the reviews I couldn't quickly find with my too-specific criteria. But to be totally fair, I've never actually read the oft-referenced Backblaze, but I've personally experienced what I feel to be an extraordinarily high volume of failures with the Seagate 3TBs. I even saw a lawsuit floated on that point, specifically (I just don't have time to go back and gather the data for it).

So, while there is the whole Backblaze thing, not trusting recent Seagates is not entirely without merit. My point is just that it doesn't make sense to extrapolate that into the future without performing objective checking as you go.
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#9
Quote from WiiGame View Post :

Anyone who discounts an entire major brand completely is a fanboy for the opposition in my book.

Well that's a rather insular view and tantamount to an ourright refusal to pay attention in my book.

Seagate represents the bottom of the HD business. Period.

If you don't realize that, then you need to do more research. When Seagate improves their warranties, then you can have (more) faith in the product. Until then, they're sending all customers a message, and they're glad some people are simply not aware enough to pick up on it or actually read the specs. Note: they have done exactly that for a few products, but still too "few" to make up for the crap IMO.

I'm not defending WD though. I've had many WD drives fail too and I know they're gouging people left and right on their Red drives, which are grossly over priced and only average. HD mfgs have decreased quality IMO, and if you get drives that last, you're lucky. It's a dying business in the long term (not immediately).
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#10
Quote from xcopy View Post :
Well that's a rather insular view and tantamount to an ourright refusal to pay attention in my book.

Seagate represents the bottom of the HD business. Period.

If you don't realize that, then you need to do more research. When Seagate improves their warranties, then you can have (more) faith in the product.
Oh, well, it's a good thing you added that "period" there so I can really know the truth now and be totally on board with that.
/sarcasm

Though, I do find it interesting that you attempt to label the open-minded approach toward all major brands as the "insular view." So then the myopic personal ban on an entire major brand is not insular? Irreconcilable, but good try.

Look, I'm not thrilled with the current HDD landscape, either, but the ever-popular warranties argument is a smokescreen. Less a smokescreen from people with your views, and more a smokescreen perpetrated on all of us.

Just stop and think about the warranty conversation from inside the business. I believe it's not so much what we'd all like to think: "Oh, if we offer 3 years then we're going to have to stand by that so the product better last at least that long." That's idealistic and what they hope we'll think.

I think it's more like: "Out of all the failures from our products, some % are DOAs or very early failures; those usually go back to the vendor. We'll always get those; cost of doing business. But of the remaining longer-life failures, what % will actually bother to take the time to even attempt a claim? Many feel like they got some use and are just looking for the next drive up anyway, and how many people even remember their warranties, so many won't try. And of those who do try, if we make the process obscure and difficult to complete, what % of those will just quit in the process? And of those remaining, if we find nit-picky reasons to reject as many as we can, what will we actually have to pay out on? Overall, a fairly small number, right?

So, now look at our competition; they're putting out drives that last about a year and give it a 1yr warranty. HA! Since we likely won't have to pay out many claims, let's take our drive that lasts about 1 - 1.5 yrs and put a 2yr warranty on it AND charge more for it! We're not pricing ourselves out because that should hook those fools who think it's actually a 100% better drive that we'll stand behind ... all because we put a longer warranty on it (that we'll rarely have to pay out!). The extra profit margin will more than cover the actual pay outs. Heck, if we can push these drive to 2 years, make it a 3yr warranty and jack the price up even more!"

TL;DR: The perceived benefit of these warranties doesn't actually exist in reality until/unless one can successfully complete claims against them. And few of us have that kind of time. Some consumers are voracious, but in the minority, and not likely to significantly impact their bottom line.

Now, I've been in some consumer product mfg companies, so I know some things about how they operate, but admittedly not drive companies. Do I know these exact things were thought/said? Of course not. But look at the entire picture that everyone can see, including human nature and how difficult they make the process, and consider: Which scenario is more likely to be closer to the truth?

If your sole reason to buy a more expensive drive is the paper warranty, I actually feel sorry for you.
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#11
Quote from sr71 View Post :
usual Seagate trolls still drinking the koolaid from the discredited Backblaze blog
When/where was the backblaze blog posts discredited?
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#12
Quote from purplegorilla View Post :
When/where was the backblaze blog posts discredited?
They basically say that because drives aren't randomly sourced, used in identical chassis and identical usage models that the results aren't scientific and therefore invalid. Perhaps less valid than controlled tests but still useful data IMO.

When you look at specifics in the detractors, like where tweaktown says that drive temperature has a major effect on drive life. Google's data center report (where they didn't name vendors) showed that with the exception of extreme heat, temp has no effect on drive life.

Googles data center study had a chart too, and even though they left the names off one company had much worse failure rates than the others. There are also resellers that report failure rates now and then and seagate is always the worst.

My personal drive experience over the last 5-6 years has been that WD's, toshiba's and Hitachi's last until they're no longer large enough to be useful. I haven't had a seagate or samsung last more than 2 years. Every seagate warranty I've sent in was replaced with a recert drive that failed in under a year. I decided to take a chance 18 months ago and buy a 5TB seagate external to use on an xbox one which is on perhaps 10 hours a week. Its already starting to make a loud whining sound.

And again, seagate surveillance and wd purple drives are for video camera recording in systems where completing a read/write within a short time period is more important than accuracy of what is read/written. A single video frame blip is no big deal. Three or four seconds of no video recorded because the drive was retrying is a big deal.

The firmware is optimized for multiple stream writes, not reads, and in many instances the drive will give you problems if you tell it to 'sleep' as surveillance applications normally don't sleep the drives.

So no bueno to use in a desktop. Might be ok in a NAS where you're doing more writing than reading but still the wrong application for the drive.
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#13
Quote from WiiGame View Post :
Oh, well, it's a good thing you added that "period" there so I can really know the truth now and be totally on board with that.
/sarcasm

Though, I do find it interesting that you attempt to label the open-minded approach toward all major brands as the "insular view." So then the myopic personal ban on an entire major brand is not insular? Irreconcilable, but good try.

Look, I'm not thrilled with the current HDD landscape, either, but the ever-popular warranties argument is a smokescreen. Less a smokescreen from people with your views, and more a smokescreen perpetrated on all of us.

Just stop and think about the warranty conversation from inside the business. I believe it's not so much what we'd all like to think: "Oh, if we offer 3 years then we're going to have to stand by that so the product better last at least that long." That's idealistic and what they hope we'll think.

I think it's more like: "Out of all the failures from our products, some % are DOAs or very early failures; those usually go back to the vendor. We'll always get those; cost of doing business. But of the remaining longer-life failures, what % will actually bother to take the time to even attempt a claim? Many feel like they got some use and are just looking for the next drive up anyway, and how many people even remember their warranties, so many won't try. And of those who do try, if we make the process obscure and difficult to complete, what % of those will just quit in the process? And of those remaining, if we find nit-picky reasons to reject as many as we can, what will we actually have to pay out on? Overall, a fairly small number, right?

So, now look at our competition; they're putting out drives that last about a year and give it a 1yr warranty. HA! Since we likely won't have to pay out many claims, let's take our drive that lasts about 1 - 1.5 yrs and put a 2yr warranty on it AND charge more for it! We're not pricing ourselves out because that should hook those fools who think it's actually a 100% better drive that we'll stand behind ... all because we put a longer warranty on it (that we'll rarely have to pay out!). The extra profit margin will more than cover the actual pay outs. Heck, if we can push these drive to 2 years, make it a 3yr warranty and jack the price up even more!"

TL;DR: The perceived benefit of these warranties doesn't actually exist in reality until/unless one can successfully complete claims against them. And few of us have that kind of time. Some consumers are voracious, but in the minority, and not likely to significantly impact their bottom line.

Now, I've been in some consumer product mfg companies, so I know some things about how they operate, but admittedly not drive companies. Do I know these exact things were thought/said? Of course not. But look at the entire picture that everyone can see, including human nature and how difficult they make the process, and consider: Which scenario is more likely to be closer to the truth?

If your sole reason to buy a more expensive drive is the paper warranty, I actually feel sorry for you.
I feel sorry for you too, since you're short on tech mfg experience and unable to think in terms of costs/liabilities. this is not consumer products.

As for warranties, that is how they think. It's an imperfect example, but you should take an accounting class and see if you can grasp what an "accrued liability" is and you might understand.

The CEO of Seagate said he was reducing warranties from 3/5 to 1/3 (or close to that) starting in 2012 to make their products fit into the industry (he assumed that everyone was going to one year warranties, and he was wrong). This is right after the flood, and Seagate did whatever it could to a) reduce costs by moving more mfg to China so drives could be make for $0.03 each, and then reduced warranties, and raised prices. Seagate will admit that their quality took a dive after the move. go ahead, look it up.

Warranties are a reflection of of product quality. I worked for a vendor that used to make drives and is still one of the largest computer mfgs in the world. One of my best friends worked for Seagate for many years, so yes, I heard things that you may not. But it's consistent. Why do you think Detroit reduced warranties? Do you think these people are stupid and they're "guessing" how long a product will last? Do you think Samsung warranties their SSDs for 5 years/ x TBW because they're guessing? No, they know their warranty replacement/repair costs will be low. Remind me to never work for, work with, or buy stock in any company that has you making decisions.

Every industry has a top tier company, and it falls off from there. In this case, we only have 5 companies, if you count Samsung and HGST as separate (seagate's subsidiary) . Seagate is at the bottom of the quality ranking. Hell, even toilet paper has a quality level, and there's a big difference between the top and bottom of the TP mfgs.

Buy whatever you want. You don't understand any of it anyway.
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